Not long ago I spent a week immersing myself in trance mediumship. Somewhere in the middle of it, Kari, a lovely lady from Norway who'd become my dining room buddy, tracked me down and told me, quite firmly, that I had to speak to a medium called Kim Angel Karlskov. When I started reading about Kim, I understood why. So thank you, Kari, for the introduction.
Kim is a trance medium from Norway. He made his first proper link with spirit at five years old, and he's worked as a medium since he was 18. He grew up in a home where the kitchen table didn't always stay on the floor. His mum ran what they called "witch circles" with their neighbour, the much-loved author Margit Sandemo. In one of those circles, a table big enough to seat ten got up on two legs and walked across the kitchen. Not your average family dinner. For the last 15 years he's been training mediums at his own school.
I've wanted to write about trance for a while, because there's so much misinformation out there. Some people think it's spooky. Some think it's theatre. Some think it means handing your body over to whoever turns up. So this is two things: a reflection on my conversation with Kim, and an honest look at the myths that put people off trance mediumship.
Trance in a nutshell
Trance mediumship is a form of mediumship where the medium steps back so that a spirit communicator can come close enough to speak, or to work, through them. Your own thinking mind moves into the background and the spirit person comes forward. In trance communication, that might be teaching, philosophy or guidance spoken through the medium. In trance healing, it's healing given through the medium to someone who needs it.
How far you step back varies from medium to medium. Some are aware of every word. Others, like Kim, remember nothing at all. What matters is the blend: the closeness between you and the spirit person, built over time, with trust on both sides.
Trance isn't new. Trance speakers drew big crowds in the early days of Spiritualism, and some of the teaching I love most came through in trance, like Silver Birch through Maurice Barbanell. It goes back much further than that, too. As Kim reminded me, shamans and indigenous peoples have entered trance for centuries, with drums, dance and fire. Today it usually looks a lot quieter.
If you'd like to go deeper into the basics, I've written a fuller guide: What Is Trance Mediumship? A Medium's Honest Guide to Trance and Physical Mediumship.
You feel genuine trance
When you've watched genuine trance, you know. It touches the heart. You feel the power, you feel the essence of the spirit person, and you can feel the power of spirit in the room.
Every time I've seen trance done well, it has reached every single person there. The spirit world is clever like that. They know what the collective consciousness of the audience needs, and that's what comes through. In my experience, trance communicators bring messages of help that speak to everyone at once.
I honestly feel trance is healing in all its forms. I've seen amazing healing done through trance, and I believe there's so much more that can be done with it.
My own road into trance
Before I met Kim, my own road into trance had been a bumpy one. I want to share it, because it might save you a few bumps of your own.
My first taste was a circle run by a trance medium I'd got to know. He'd keep saying, "Now speak, friend. Now speak, friend." Even that early in my development, I could sense the people speaking weren't in the power. There was no presence of the spirit world with them. They were speaking in an inspired way, which has its place, but it isn't trance.
My second experience was in a dark room full of people who all knew each other. I didn't feel welcome or comfortable, so I was never going to relax enough to go anywhere near trance. I fled at lunchtime. It made me look at parts of myself, as mediumship always does, but it also taught me something important.
Mediumship is a very personal thing. It's about exploring your sensitivity, and to become that sensitive and receptive, you need the right environment and the right teacher, someone who helps you unfold. It isn't learnt in a straight line. It's a journey.
Then I spent a week sitting for trance with people where I could really feel the power. For me, trance means going into a deeper state of consciousness, and there comes a moment that feels like an eclipse. You either step into it and speak, or it passes you by and you're back in your head. That week, I missed the eclipse.
And that's fine. Not everyone is meant to be a trance medium. What trance gave me was something just as precious: it taught me to really recognise the power. I've always understood that's why many of the early pioneers sat for trance before they ever attempted mediumship. You feel the heat, you get to know the power, and you learn to build it.
On my most recent trance week, I explored far more: trance speaking, guided meditations and trance healing. Guided meditations had always been a confidence thing for me, something I'd held back from. That's what mediumship does. It makes you look at parts of yourself you've never looked at before.
Five myths about trance mediumship
Myth 1: Trance means being taken over
This is the big one, and it's the one that frightens people off. Trance isn't possession. It's a partnership.
Kim works with a guide called Martin, who has been coming through him for 10 to 12 years. Kim doesn't remember anything from his trance sessions. Even so, he was very clear with me. "It's my mouth that's being used," he said. "The responsibility would follow me. I can't put it on Martin."
I love that. The medium is never a passenger. You agree to the work, you sit in the right conditions, and you stay responsible for what happens in your circle.
Myth 2: It isn't real trance unless you're out cold
Labels have their place. They're very handy on tins of soup and on medication. But we're obsessed with labelling everything, and in trance that means light trance, deep trance, and which one is "proper". Then we start attaching those labels to ourselves, and they become limiting. I said it in the episode and I'll say it again: that obsession doesn't help anyone.
Kim's experience is at the deep end. His voice changes, everything changes, and he only knows what Martin said because he's heard the recordings. Plenty of wonderful trance mediums stay partly aware the whole time. Depth isn't the goal. The quality of what comes through is.
I also believe the spirit world knows how distracted we all are these days. A hundred years ago, nobody was glued to a phone. So I think spirit has adapted, and works through many mediums in a lighter state. Really good trance still comes through that way.
Myth 3: Trance needs a dark room and a bit of drama
Kim put this beautifully. Trance is usually done in broad daylight, and the way he works is calm and relaxed. No drums, no fire, no theatrics.
Dimmed lights, red light and the cabinet belong more to physical mediumship, where spirit produces something other people can see or hear. Martin asked Kim's circle for exactly that, to concentrate the energies. Within two or three sittings in the cabinet, Martin began to transfigure over Kim's face. Sitters described something like an astronaut's helmet forming around his head, with tiny pictures of their loved ones and spirit guides appearing inside it. These days Kim's circle sits for direct voice through the trumpet, and his sitters have started to hear whistling and metallic sounds.
Fascinating stuff. But it's a different branch of the work, and you don't need any of it to develop trance. What you do need is to feel safe. Darkness doesn't make trance happen. Feeling safe, welcome and relaxed does.
Myth 4: Whatever comes through in trance must be true
This was my favourite part of the conversation. Kim doesn't just accept what Martin says. When Martin says something Kim is sure is wrong, Kim goes away and checks it.
Kim calls himself a history geek. Once, Martin talked about Mesopotamia and the Sumerians, and Kim was certain he had his facts straight. It turned out he didn't. There's nothing quite like being corrected on ancient history by your own spirit guide. Another time, Martin gave recipes for blending essential oils. Kim's circle leader tried them out, and Kim says the results matched what Martin had described.
That's discernment, and every trance medium needs it. I'm very discerning when I witness trance myself. The intelligence of the spirit world blows my mind all the time, but a good medium keeps their discernment switched on.
Myth 5: You can learn trance in a weekend
Kim has sat for trance since around 2006. He still sits in circle twice a week, and he hopes to keep sitting for many years to come. In his words, the development of trance is a long walk.
If someone promises you trance in a weekend, be wary. Trance builds slowly, sitting by sitting, as trust grows between you and the spirit world. Kim has worked with spirit since he was a child, and he still says that whenever you explore something new in yourself, you're always at a beginning.
Trance healing: what's possible
Trance isn't only about speaking. It can be one of the most beautiful ways to bring healing, and some remarkable healing has been recorded over the years.
In trance healing, the healer steps back, just as in trance communication, and allows spirit to work through them. That might be hands on, hands just above the body, or healing sent at a distance.
I believe amazing things can be done through trance healing. When the healer is truly blended with spirit, you can feel the power in the room, and I've seen people receive healing that touched them deeply.
One of the best-known examples is George Chapman, a former fireman who worked in trance with the spirit of William Lang. In life, Lang was a surgeon who specialised in eyes and worked at the Middlesex Hospital in London. He died in 1937. Through Chapman, Lang carried out what he called operations on the patient's spirit body. People who had known Lang in life, including former colleagues and his own daughter, said they recognised his manner and his voice.
Harry Edwards was a spiritual healer rather than a trance healer, but he believed his healing came through spirit guides. He was the best-known spiritual healer of his day, giving demonstrations everywhere from local Spiritualist churches to the Royal Albert Hall. At his peak, he received around 10,000 requests for distant healing every week.
You may have heard of "psychic surgery", where healers appear to open the body with their bare hands. Please be careful. Much of it has been exposed as sleight of hand, and in 1975 the US Federal Trade Commission called it "nothing but a total hoax". That isn't what I mean by trance healing.
Genuine trance healing is gentle. A good healer never diagnoses, never promises a cure, and never tells anyone to stop their medical treatment. It works alongside medicine, not instead of it.
So what's possible? This podcast is all about exploring human consciousness, and I want to help pave the way for people to see what we're capable of when we believe we can. I truly believe we've only scratched the surface.
Healing isn't always physical, either. My dad came through during one of my trance weeks, just a year after he'd passed. It was very emotional for me. We had a tricky old relationship at times, and he had a lot of his own troubles when he was here. But seeing how much he has healed since he's been in the spirit world showed me that mediumship is healing in all its forms. Him coming through like that healed me, and it healed him. It allowed us both to forgive, and simply to love each other.
Accepting the power
If there's one idea I've taken from Kim, it's this one.
In England we talk about "sitting in the power". It's a phrase often credited to the late Glyn Edwards, and it's helpful up to a point. But I'll be honest. For my first year, I was looking for the power button. Spoiler: there isn't one. I was trying to work out how to turn it up. I thought I needed to be at max voltage to feel anything.
I even used to overthink my breathing. I'd take a few deep breaths to settle, and then I couldn't get back into a normal rhythm because I was so aware of it. These days I prefer to call it sitting in the stillness. I wrote more about that shift in What Is Sitting in the Power?
Then Kim told me that in Norway they call it accepting the power. That stopped me in my tracks. You're not building anything and you're not chasing anything. You're allowing what's already there, because the power isn't somewhere outside you. It's you, and it always has been.
That matters for all mediumship, and for trance most of all. You can't force a blend. You can only allow it.
Kim also said something I wish I'd heard years ago: alignment doesn't mean silence. You don't have to empty your mind. For Kim, alignment means knowing who you are and where you are. When he's in that place, he can trust that what he's receiving is spirit and not his own thoughts. And when something comes, he doesn't pounce on it with questions. "Sometimes we just need to sit down and let them tell us," he said, "instead of us chasing the message."
Don't let anyone define your mediumship
Kim's path hasn't been easy. He told me Norway had no Spiritualist church until 2005, and that first one closed within a year. With no tradition to lean on, much of his development was trial and error. When he wanted to explore trance properly, he had to come to England. By his reckoning, only two or three people in Norway demonstrate and teach trance.
He's faced real hostility too. After a newspaper ran an article about one of his demonstrations, a bus driver refused to let him on the bus. "I don't want your kind," the driver said. What kind is that, I wondered? Loving, empathetic and good-hearted?
What struck me is how Kim has made peace with that. "I'm the defining power of me," he told me. What people say and do reflects them, not him.
His closing words are the ones I'd love you to take away: "Don't let other people define who you are or your development. Just stay within your own power."
That goes for trance too. Nobody else gets to tell you what your mediumship should look like, how deep your trance should be, or which label to stick on it. Your development is yours.
Spiritual Takeaways
Trance is a partnership, not a possession. The medium stays responsible.
Depth isn't the measure. The quality of the communication is.
Feeling safe matters more than the dark. Find the right teacher and the right circle.
Accept the power rather than chasing it. You are the power.
Not everyone is meant to be a trance medium, but trance teaches everyone to recognise the power.
Keep your discernment switched on, even in trance.
Ground yourself afterwards, and give yourself time to simply be human.
Healing comes in many forms, and genuine trance healing works alongside medicine, never instead of it.
Don't let anyone define your mediumship.
Sit with me: the Trance Circle
If this has stirred something in you, Donna King and I are starting an online Trance Circle on Zoom from Thursday 3 December 2026. It runs fortnightly on Thursdays, 6 to 8pm UK time, with a break at Christmas. Each session is £20, and places are capped at 20.
Donna brings decades of trance experience, and together we'll explore every aspect of trance: blending with your spirit team, altered states, inspired speaking, trance communication and trance healing. There's no pressure to produce anything. It's a safe, supportive space to let your trance develop at its own pace, without labels.
The circle is for people who can already make a connection with spirit. If you're completely new, get in touch first and we'll help you find the right starting point.
Book your place in the Trance Circle
If you're newer to mediumship, my free online development circle runs every Tuesday from 6 to 8pm UK time, and it's open to all levels.
And do listen to the full episode with Kim above. There's so much in it that I couldn't fit here. We didn't even get to his spirit portraits with another guide, Claire. That's a conversation for another day. And watch this space: Kim has kindly agreed to come back and do a trance sitting for Soul Sync, so you may get to meet Martin for yourself.
You can find Kim on Facebook.
Trance FAQ
What are the most common myths about trance mediumship?
That trance means being taken over, that it's only real if you're out cold, that it needs a dark room, that everything said in trance must be true, and that it can be learnt quickly. None of them hold up. Trance is a partnership between the medium and the spirit world, built over time.
Is trance mediumship safe?
Developed properly, yes. Sit with an experienced teacher in a circle where you feel safe and welcome, and never rush it. Grounding matters a great deal. We absorb energy all day long, from our phones and computers to the people around us. When you sit for trance you raise your vibration, and afterwards you can still carry the fragrance of the spirit person's energy. Grounding yourself back into the earth brings you down gently and lets you relax. Don't sit when you're unwell, exhausted or have been drinking. If you're going through a difficult time emotionally, talk to your teacher first.
Will I lose control in trance?
No. Trance is a partnership, not a possession. You and your circle leader decide when you go in and when you come back. As Kim Angel Karlskov puts it, the responsibility stays with the medium.
What's the difference between light trance and deep trance?
In light trance you stay aware of what's happening and what's being said. In deep trance you may remember very little or nothing at all. Most mediums move somewhere along that range. Neither is better. What matters is the quality of the communication.
What is trance healing?
Trance healing is where the healer steps back and allows spirit to work through them, hands on, hands just above the body, or at a distance. Genuine trance healing never diagnoses or promises a cure, and it always works alongside medical care, never instead of it.
What's the difference between trance and physical mediumship?
In trance, spirit communicates through the medium, usually in normal light. Physical mediumship produces things other people can see or hear, such as direct voice, table tilting or transfiguration. It's often developed in dimmed or red light, sometimes using a cabinet.
How long does it take to develop trance mediumship?
Years rather than weeks. Kim has sat for trance since around 2006 and still sits in circle twice a week. Regular, patient sitting matters more than anything else.
What is a trance circle?
A trance circle is a small group that sits together regularly, led by an experienced medium. The sitters help hold the energy and the leader looks after whoever is in trance. That safe, consistent space is what lets trance develop.
Can you develop trance online?
Yes. The spirit world isn't limited by distance. Online circles give you the regular, consistent sittings that trance needs, wherever you are in the world. It's why Donna King and I run our Trance Circle on Zoom.
References and further reading
George Chapman and William Lang, Psi Encyclopedia, Society for Psychical Research
Harry Edwards, Psi Encyclopedia, Society for Psychical Research
Psychic surgery, Wikipedia (includes the 1975 FTC finding)
Healing Hands by J. Bernard Hutton, the book about George Chapman's healing work
Full episode transcript
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Jason: Kim, a massive warm welcome to the Soul Sync.
Kim: Oh, sorry. Hello, hi!
Jason: Hello. It's lovely to have you on, and thank you for coming on to the show today. Now. I have to say from the beginning, I was recently, on a week, immersing myself in trance mediumship, and a very, lovely lady, tracked me down and said, you have to speak to this medium. And, when I started to learn about you, I really understand why that is now. So, I guess to begin with, tell us a bit about you, because it really feels to me, even reading about you, that there's so many aspects to your relationship with spirit and mediumship.
Kim: Yes, I've been working as a… medium since I was 18. That's 22 years ago. Starting to feel old now. And, My mum, she was a medium, so she taught me most of the things I know, and she… we used to have circles at our home with table tipping and some physical mediumship, even. It was… it was great, really. I'm Norwegian, so I hope my English is okay.
Jason: Oh, your English is amazing! I have to say. I've always got respect for anyone that speaks a second language, to be quite honest with you, because I just speak English, so…
Kim: Yeah, I've worked with a lot of mediums, through… through the years. I've worked in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, England, Scotland, Greece, Ireland even, one time. So my work with Spirit has taken me to many different places, and many different people, because I think that's what spirit does. is creating all these kind of meetings between people so you can expand. I think the expansion of mediumship is actually quite healthy. And… Since I'm Norwegian, when you look to Norway for spiritual things. Most people think about you know, the Norse mythology, they don't really realise that we have our own culture, concerning mediumship. Norway has never had spiritualism. Never. Until 2005, the first spiritualist church in Norway opened in 2005. It got closed down within a year. And the next one opened in 2007. So, our development is kind of based on trial and error. We haven't had anyone to… to guide us. If you understand what I mean, when I say that.
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Jason: Well, I do, and I always feel that we're very spoiled in England, because obviously, you know, you can't go 20 miles without coming across a centre or a church, and we're very blessed to have that, but… you know, I've come across, and I love Norway, I've been there a couple of times, but it feels to me, even, you know, to have a church and that then closed down. What was your relationship, and what is the kind of, you know, coming into this world so young? What is the thoughts about, sort of, the spirit world and within the culture of the country?
Kim: Yeah, and when my mum taught me about mediumship, I think I was 5 years old. when I did my first proper link.
Jason: It's very young! How did that even kind of come about? How did your mum… it's beautiful that she was embracing that part of you and your sensitivity and your knowing, but how and what did that look like?
Kim: She was having clients because she was working as a clairvoyant medium. And, you know, being a kid, I have ADHD as well, so I was kind of all over the place. when I was little, and… I remember, she was sitting in the kitchen in our home, speaking to this lady, and I was in my room because me and my siblings, we were kind of stowed away when she had clients at home. And… I keep hearing this voice inside my head, telling me things that… I should know, so I was basically speaking to myself. As I was sitting there playing with my toys. And this man who came through, he… Pressured me to… To go and tell this woman what he was saying. So I just didn't think much about it, and just went out and started talking. So, I was technically double-linking with my mum the first time it happened, because she was speaking to the same man as well.
Jason: It's beautiful that your mum kind of encouraged you in that way, and I've got ADHD myself, and I believe that it's interesting, because I tend to find that I attract friends who have got ADHD, and even in the kind of mediumship world. A lot of my good friends within this world are ADHD, and there's something about the way that we perceive things. We struggle to pay attention, but I feel it's because our mind is off in so many other places, and, you know, for me, you know, I didn't discover my mediumship till, much later. My granddad was a medium. But I'd kind of suppress that part of myself. For a very long time, mainly because I, being sensitive in an all-boys school, having feelings of being gay was definitely not something that I wanted to be bubbling to the surface. So, you know, your mum's, sort of… was very… allowing… it feels to me that she was really kind of, fanning the flames from such a young age for you to kind of develop this. So how did it kind of progress over the years, this openness and, that you, you have about, you?
Kim: It was, difficult, because this kind of thing, it didn't turn off. When I was… this is before I can remember it happening. But, when I was very little, and I was in my bassinet, is that what you call it?
Jason: Yes.
Kim: I was playing with these floating lights. My mum thought there was an ambulance or a police car outside the house. But the lights were coming from inside the room where I was staying. And when she opened the door, she was… she saw me playing with these kinds of orbs of light. And… All of these things started happening. more and more, actually. When I went to my friend's house, I got plastic cutlery, because the forks and the spoons, they bent in my mouth. Oh, wow. The tinsels, is that what you call it, on the fork, they came out all crooked and bent. I cut my mouth so many times on those sharp edges. And as I got older, those things started to calm down. I can say. But what I heard and what I saw became an issue, because I have… a hard time keeping my mouth shut when I see something, and… my fellow students in school, they were kind of scared of me, I think.
Jason: I can kind of understand that, really, if you're sort of bending metal and, you know, having experiences like that, but, you know, it's… I can understand that, you know, you've got this sensitivity about you, you're trying to navigate. the difficult landscape of being at school, and you're sort of absorbing, even being that sensitive, absorbing everything around you, and then having to sort of navigate the world of, you know, growing up in school. That's difficult, and it's difficult even for someone at the best of times going through that, let alone having that happen. What do you feel was going on there when these experiences were happening to you? When you look back at this kind of phenomena that was occurring, how do you view that, and how do you kind of look at that now in retrospect?
Kim: To be honest, it's kind of been quite natural. Everything that happened, it just happened. And, my mediumship, or the way that I work with spirit, it's so natural, and so… to me, it feels grounded, right? It's… obviously, I've taken courses, I've learned, I've studied, and I've refined, and it's been… A lot of work doing those things. what I'm often told here in Norway is that, I… I don't understand the beginning of it, because I've never been at the beginner stage of development, because I've always had that connection. I want to disagree with that, because every time You start to explore something about yourself, you're always in a beginning phase of it. It doesn't matter if it's about your personality, your abilities, your creativity, it doesn't matter. You're always at a beginning phase, which… Eventually brings you forward. As an adult, when I look back. on all of those things. I'm very grateful for them. Because… spirit… When we speak about spirit in this way, it's… A lot of people say that they… they struggle to connect. In different ways, with your own spirit team, with… Loved ones, and so on. And… For me to know how close they are, and have these kinds of physical proofs that they… they're actually there. makes me really, really happy, and I feel really grateful and lucky to have experienced all of those things.
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Jason: I think… What's jumping out at me as you explain that is, because of the fact, it feels to me that you've experienced it so young, you've… you've grown up with this understanding and this knowing and this belief, whereas I feel that so many people coming into this, and myself included in that, despite having a granddad that was a medium, and despite the fact that I'd seen paranormal things, I'd become so… disenfranchised with the world. I'd sort of gone on that. very much a lifestyle of trying to build wealth, wealth, wealth, that that's going to, you know, bring me happiness. And, what I had to go through was a period of big unlearning a lot of things in life to then discover that relationship and that… relationship with trust, and that, and… you know, to be honest with you, I look back at my life now, and when I kind of come across lovely people like yourself, Kim, I always think to myself, oh, I wish I'd kind of, you know, discovered it sooner, it'd have helped me, but I know that that just wasn't part of my path. I wasn't ready for it. I kind of had to go through those very… dark times, in a sense, to kind of have the softness, the understanding, the empathy. It was… it kind of manifested for me, I feel, when it… when it was meant to manifest, but it was almost like him. I… I was… no proof was enough for me that the spirit world was real, you know, you could have slapped me in the face with evidence, and it was almost like I was building a case file. And the only thing that actually started to prove to me that it was real was when I started doing it for myself, actually. But when you're coming across people, then, because you look at this in a very unique perspective, and what you just said there about seeing the closeness of the spirit world to people, but people not understanding or recognising that, what do you feel is Preventing, people, or the… what is it that they're having to go through to… to kind of get that awareness that the spirit world is so close?
Kim: I think a lot of people, they shut out what they don't understand, or… because I truly, truly believe that every single person on this planet has the ability to develop Some kind of mediumship. We are a part of that source. We are spirit in a body. Of course, we're… we have the ability to communicate with them as well. But… the world we live in, and especially in Norway, we're very focused on technology and progression and, you know, all of those kinds of things, which kind of is distracting. From listening to those subtle… messages and of subtle signs that we get from Spirit. Half the job of being a medium is… Actually, just listening. and trying to embrace and understand the feeling. And instead of, you know, brushing it away, and usually the first thing we say when we feel something, especially when you work with spirit is to… you break, kind of, the link by saying, okay, what is this? What does this mean? Does it mean this? Does it mean that? Is someone getting, robbed? Is… what's going on? Instead of just… keep listening to it, and not trying to overthink it, and to understand it in a logical way. Sometimes we just need to sit down and let them tell us instead of us chasing the message. If you understand.
Jason: I do, I think half the problem is… is… If you're coming into mediumship, Whereby… Firstly, it depends on how much you are even in alignment with the way that you feel, and I feel that a lot of people will be so far removed from following what they feel, because they will spend the majority of their life you know, kind of processing in their mind what to do, and I can really relate to that. And I do remember a distinct point in my own journey when I'd… hired a lot of people, and created a whole new structure on my business, which I thought, funnily enough, the keyword there being thought, was a good idea. And I realised I had made a gigantic mistake, and then I had to unwind this decision. And I vowed then, never, ever, ever, to make a decision unless it was something I felt within my gut. And it was at that kind of point in my journey that it activated something within me, where, you know, it really kind of got the ball rolling with all things mediumship. But I can understand, because If you were someone that, you know, doesn't… kind of sit with their feelings, then it… like you said, the spirit world is so subtle that for you to sort of recognise that in the beginning, you know, if you don't really… if you're not in touch with the way that you feel a lot of the time, then how are you going to notice something so subtle? And I think half the problem is, when we start this journey, we expect it to be very vivid, almost like there's a manifestation in front of us. And it's not like that, is it?
Kim: No, it is not, or at least very few people experience that. Those messages, or the hints, or… I would rather put… inspiration on it that Spirit gives us is something that… I think they do it all Well, not all the time, but very, very often. And… if we just listen to it, we will be able to receive it. And when I say listen, I don't mean… sorry, I don't mean, you know, you have to stop everything you do and become all quiet, because that's another thing I feel is a bit misunderstood with mediumship. Is that you need… to be quiet. Everything needs to be quiet inside you. You have to find this silence, right? Mediumship… from my experience, works best when we're in alignment. That alignment doesn't mean quiet.
Jason: What does it mean?
Kim: This means that alignment, what that means.
Jason: Yes!
Kim: To me, it means that we are Aware of who we are. And where we are. When Spirit speaks to me, when I'm in a shopping centre, it will be… Hard to listen to them because of all the things happening around me. You know, you have all the people out shopping, you have everything you need to buy, and groceries, and stuff you're looking for. But… when there's a moment of calm around me, I can be stressed, I can be, you know. All over the place, but… when there's… when… the environment around me is calm enough, I'm more… I can't find a word. I… I listen better to… to… to spirit. Because all the… Distractions around me are… Removed. And when I'm in alignment with myself, I'm in a good place. I know who I am. I have a feeling of… of strength, right? Through life. If you take it just a day of your life, as an example, you will meet people and situations that makes you feel… uncomfortable. Makes you sometimes question your worth. But the core of me, I always know the core of me, and that is for me to be in alignment with who I am. And when I am in that Space, in that place. I can more easily listen as well, because I… I am sure that it's spirit and not just my thoughts creating. The impressions they gave me. If you understand what I mean.
Jason: I do. I think, for me, one of the biggest issues that I have had on my journey is this relationship I have with trying. And even with the spirit world, I… You know, I always kind of felt, and my understanding is forever evolving and changing, but so often, I… even when I would sit, I would constantly be trying to do something, trying to connect, trying to make a link, trying to listen. And that… that ability was… I just couldn't… my human, ego part of my brain just could not accept How simple it was to make a connection. And, you know, that took me a long time to get over, because I'd been conditioned throughout my whole life that you need to work hard. Work hard leads to success, you need to, do your best, that's going to get you to where you want to be. And don't get me wrong, in the material world, that served me very, very well. But, when I came to mediumship, I just couldn't wrap my head around that, and that was the challenge, is that I… you know, a face, and even silly things, like, I would see it. and take a few deep breaths. Then I couldn't even get my breath back into a normal rhythm, because it was almost like I was aware of it. And I thought, now I'm even having a problem breathing, when most of the time it's automatic. So, you know, and even as I'm saying that, I can see that it's kind of making, you know, useful to perk up like this is something that you're coming across, but there seems to be a universal issue when it comes to the spirit world, doesn't it?
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Kim: Yes, it absolutely does. And when you, as I said earlier, we, as humans, we chase the messages, we chase the connection, instead of letting it come to us. in England, at least, I think you call it sitting in the silence, or sitting in the power.
Jason: Sitting in the power seems to be the universal label, but personally now, I've stopped, liking that term. I think it's helpful To some extent, but it implies that it requires you to do something, to build something, and now I look at that term sitting in the power, and I just… tend to find now that if I was going to put a label on it, sitting in the stillness, is a better term, because I'll tell you what, Kim, for ages, I was trying to find where the power button was, and I was trying to find how to turn it up, and… You know, I probably spent the first year of my journey trying to work out what the power was, not realising that, you know, I am it, and I've forever been it.
Kim: Yes. In Norway, we call it accepting the power.
Jason: Obviously, that's a much better way to name it and coin it, isn't it? Because that implies that you're not doing anything, you're just allowing the power to come to you. So that's… I think that's a better way of phrasing it, actually.
Kim: Yes, that's why I said, I think you call it that in England.
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Jason: Well, we do, it was actually, I think it was, Glyn Edwards who came up with the concept of sitting in the power, and it seems to have become a universal term now, but, you know, it… and actually, I… that very title and that very label made it quite difficult for me in the early stages to understand the context of it. because really what you're trying to do, ultimately, is just sit and allow. And for me, I just felt that I needed to be at max voltage in order to fill anything, so… You! Having this… relationship with the Spirit from such a young age. You have, obviously. Sort of skipped some of the steps that some people would need to sort of uncover when it gets activated or explored later in life. But I know it hasn't been easy for you, almost for that reason in a lot of ways, because one of the things that really jumped out to me here was about how you kind of felt in groups and environments. So what would you say, sort of looking back now, are the challenges that you had, and how did you overcome those?
Kim: when I was growing up, I was, always the new kid. Even though my mum, she was a medium, and she was very good at her job, really good. She was one of the most famous mediums in Norway during her… her active years. people drove from Tromsø to… to where we lived, which is about… 24 hours to drive?
Jason: blimey. That is a long commute to see a medium, isn't it?
Kim: Yes, just to come to our house to… to… to see her. As she got older, she kind of got… Developed psychological issues. So she moved us around a lot. So, I was always the new kid in school, right? An easy target. And things weren't always, Picture perfect? To put it that way. But when things, When kids move around like that so many times, it's hard to establish lasting relationships. It wasn't until I became an adult that… I actually found… how can I say it? Like, my tribe? If you understand.
Jason: Yes?
Kim: And… these things, when… when I'm in a crowd of people, I had to really learn how to Mute. the things that I see, and the things that I hear, because this openness is so natural, it feels… Really weird turning it off. And… as I said earlier, when I was in school, I kept seeing things, and a lot of the students I… I went to school with, they… they were scared. Me. Even some of the teachers, and they threatened to hospitalise me. Because…
Jason: Blimey.
Kim: things I, I saw. In England, you're very lucky. As you said, you can't walk how far, 20 feet, without seeing a centre or a church. In Norway, we've never had that. It's been always looked at as quite, quite weird. We have some people that we still talk about, like Marcello Haugen or Margit Sandemo, if you know who those people are.
Jason: I've heard the names, yes.
Kim: Yeah. Margit Sandemo was also my neighbour when we grew up, so she and my mum, they had… they called it witch circles, we would call it a development circle.
Jason: I quite like witch circle, that kind of works for me, I sort of embrace that, that, that term, but I could see that.
Kim: Yeah, I agree. And that was basically what you call a physical circle. And I was… when I got old enough, I was allowed to join. But, you know, turning off, and this is… discipline and control, and this is something I think. Every medium has to work with, because in the beginning, It's so exciting, and you're like. A lot of people are open all the time. And, like, oh, spirit this and spirit that. But it's also important to… to… Shut down those senses, and actually just be human for a while. We have to regenerate, we have to get our energy back. I've spent the last 15 years training mediums. I have my own school here in Norway for mediumship. And psychic work, and healing. Spiritual things is a better word for it. And… when I see my students. I can't explain. There are no words, really, because the happiness and the excitement and the… Oh my god, when they open up, and they get through the evidence, and they really feel that first connection. I think it's a bit addicting, as well. Because it feels so good, and it's so much fun. But, as I said, I need to… I had to work hard on… muting all the things that I saw, or… It's hard to mute them, I need to learn how to shut up about them.
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Jason: Well, it's a sad old world at times, isn't it? When us sensitive people, whom a lot of the time are healers or whatever, and we're people that are living in universal truth, is we live in a culture where… And I understand why, because it's fear that's attached to it, and we live in a world that, is very much governed by the scarcity mindset, and, you know, the world would be a better place if everyone really understood the truth of what they are, but it's a very difficult existence for us sensitive people, and, you know, we can be in environments like you were there with your mum, surrounded by love and whatever, and then when you go out to the real world. And it's… it's a difficult, old, horrible place, and, to be honest with you, I can relate to you, because I, I used to sense things all the time when I was little, but I suppressed that because my school days were absolutely awful. And then I kind of, sort of embraced my sensitivity a bit in my later teenage years, and then I, very… I say foolishly, I don't have any regrets, I joined the police. And then, oh, that was not the place you wanted to be sensitive, so I turned the dial back down again. And it was only when I got to a point of feeling absolutely bloody miserable in life. And then I had that moment of bringing through a connection. And when you're… and I can see it in you, the energy, and how you… you know, how that sort of just ignited, you just then talking about, your students. But, you know, you can't underestimate just how life-changing that first connection is, because it really… for me, it'd done a number of things. For me, it really… first of all, it proved to me there was more to life, but then that opens up a Pandora's box, because I thought, well, if there is more to life than this, then what does this mean for my life here? And what does this mean, then, for my potential? And if I can suddenly communicate with someone, in the unseen world, what does that mean in terms of my potential? So, what you're doing in that moment there is you're changing a lot of people's life view, but you're igniting the power within them. And that is liberating, so I can understand why that's such a beautiful, thing to be able to facilitate within people. But then it's… for me, it opened up so many questions, Kim. It was once I suddenly realised that I had this power and could do this, which was then kind of strange, because I thought, well, hang on a minute. I've been doing and sensing a lot of this throughout my whole life, but it's… I hadn't connected the dots. It was only in that moment when I embraced it. and the spirit world obviously gave me the carrot of showing me my potential that first time, but I thought, well, you know, this is it now. I want to understand this. I want to… if I can access my granddad, or I can access my loved ones, my story is very unique and funny in the sense that I didn't ask my granddad too many questions about mediumship, but he's ended up being my teacher now from the other world, so it's almost like our relationship has evolved, and in some ways, I feel as close to him now as when he was alive, but… That's a beautiful thing to do. How is it in Norway now? Is it becoming, you know, more accepted, or, kind of understood, or is the culture, you know, still very much, that. You know, you're sort of looked at as someone over a cauldron, so to speak.
Kim: Well, to be honest, it's, quite divided. There are a lot more people that are open to, spiritual things, But after the Spiritualist Church, got founded in 2007 in Norway. It… it's kind of… Been… gotten divided into three. People who… Trust the church. and people who are mediums and say, I'm a medium, I'm not a spiritualist. And you have the people, Who don't believe in it at all. A few years ago in Norway, there was created, This group, this, yeah, this group. an organisation. And it was, you know, everything was… certified and stuff about it. It's called, and it's still working today, it's called No One Likes Being Fooled. They basically, from my opinion, and my, my place, they attacked. every single… Spiritual thing that they can. I was living in a small city in Norway called Lillehammer. It's where they made the TV series Lilyhammer.
Jason: Yes.
Kim: Yes, I used to live there. And… They had this huge following in this city. This is a few years ago, and I remember there had been a newspaper article about me, because I was doing a platform demonstration, and the platform demonstration was huge. I think it was about 200-something? In the room? I had so much fun that night, it was amazing. But after the article, one of the bus drivers, because I was living outside the city, so I had to take the bus. downtown. And… When he saw me, he refused me entry on the bus.
Jason: How rotten of him?
Kim: he, he said, I don't want your kind.
Jason: And what kind is that, I wonder?
Kim: Yeah, you know?
Jason: and empathetic and understanding and good-hearted? Is that the type he doesn't want on his bus?
Kim: Yeah, probably. They're all puzzled, and I was like, what's going on? So he refused me entry on the bus, so I had to wait for the next one. Basically, no big deal. But when I came downtown, I saw this group of people, four people, having their… their No One Likes Being Fooled jackets on. And they saw me walking in the walking street, and they actually spat after me when I walked past them, and they were really, really rude. The words they said. Luckily, Things have changed since then.
Jason: Good.
Kim: So, I'm sorry, I have to laugh at them. So… I tried to go… come back to what I was saying, is that Norway is kind of split in three. The people who say I'm a medium, but not a spiritualist. I'm a spiritual person, but I'm not a spiritualist. And the people who are spiritualists, and the people who don't believe, basically.
Jason: Isn't it amazing, I always find, as human beings, how we are so obsessed with labels, with the need to want to label everything, and… You know, that is just part of the human conditioning. You know, we've filled the need, I think, within our logical brains to put everything into categories. But, you know, if I was to even ask 5 different people on what, who would label themselves as spiritualists. I guess I would label myself as a spiritualist. I guarantee you, you'd get 5 different answers on what that actually means. And, you know, it's even the same with, mediumship, you know, all the different labels that we put on, the different types of states and types and, you know, how we become obsessed with saying that this is a deep trance, this is a light trance, this is what it is, and it's… I don't think that's, very helpful at times, and… you know, I think we're all on our own journey, and we all have our own challenges, and, you know, it feels very much to me that you've had a very strong connection, but you've been, you know, very much, in the face of adversity against that of people who are living their life through Fear, and it's amazing, you know, what fear, can do in life, to hold people back from, fulfilling their potential, or, to just even treat someone in that way is absolutely, you know. just… just not right, and I can imagine, you know, that's been… You know, incredibly difficult for you, as well, because, you know, you… you know, it's when you've been given hate at that kind of level and whatever, it's, you know, you've got to really dig deep to kind of passed through that, haven't you? And it stays with you, and I can imagine that's… that probably, you know, invokes trauma back from those days of feeling like you did at school, which is, you know, very difficult.
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Kim: Yes, and that's very true. What I realised is that I'm the defining power of me. So, whatever people say, or, or they do, I came to an understanding that it doesn't reflect me, it reflects themselves. And I had to define who I am and who I want to be. Even though my past experiences has been… Hmm? Not very good a lot of the times. The memory of them is, It's a memory. It's not who I am. And I understand that I am… who I am no matter what, right? When I came out as gay, when I was, I don't remember, 14, 15, around that time, I think. That was actually easier.
Jason: That says a lot, doesn't it? Because that's… that's not an easy thing, you know, and I don't know what it's like culturally there, but coming out as gay is… is very difficult, and… you know, at school, I didn't have the opportunity to come out. I was outed, which, you know, is difficult in itself, but that says a lot, that that felt easier to you than, you know. necessarily saying and acknowledging that I'm a sensitive person.
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Kim: Yes. It was weird, because, I remember, at school. when I first kind of said it, people were like, oh, congratulations! good for you kind of things, but if I spoke about spiritual things, the tone was completely different, to put it in that way. When I work with Spirit, I've worked with Spirit every day, in every way I can. And here is another difference between England and Norway. In Norway, we do a lot of our spiritual work alone. We don't have development circles like you do. So, for example, table tipping. Tilting? What do you call it?
Jason: Yes, yes, table, tilting.
Kim: Yeah, that's usually something we do alone.
Jason: That's interesting, isn't it? That, that, in a sense, is, Very isolating, because there's something in… Being around other people, and that being within a community, and yeah, there's a lot of people who listen to this very podcast, who email me, who are in very remote parts of the world. And, who are… who are doing exactly that. And I guess this is a really interesting point that you raise, because there's going to be people listening here saying, well, yes, that's me, you know, and, you know, I guess the internet has helped in a way, because there's these communities, but I didn't even rea… I've always felt that table tilting was something that you needed a few people to build that energy up, so, you know, you must be building a very powerful energy there, Kim, to do it alone.
Kim: No, it's usually something we do alone, or with maybe one friend. Norway has a long tradition with table tilting. Well, we call it trollbord, or troll tables. So, back in the old days, they used these small wooden tables with 3 legs. And one leg was painted red, and one leg was painted blue, and one leg was painted green. So, every time Spirit lifted one of the legs, it was… You understood if it was yes, no, or we can't answer.
Jason: That's interesting, isn't it?
Kim: So… so that's a part of our culture, and I remember from one of the circles we did, with Margit Sandemo and my mum. We… we had this huge table, and it was heavy. It was really, really heavy. I think you could see around 10 people around it. And we.
Jason: Wow.
Kim: And they were 3 people, and the table lifted from the floor. And got up on two legs, and walked across the kitchen.
Jason: I… do you know what? I… my very first doorway into this world was doing ghost hunts and doing table tilting, and all that time, I was… really, what I was looking for was… that was kind of me searching for proof, searching for evidence, but even then my… rational mind would come in and say, well, I think that person there was pushing it or something. But it's interesting what you say that this is kind of… table tilting is part of Norwegian culture. Yet, there's so much fear. So that's accepted, yet on the same hand, mediumship, which really is kind of an extension, or under that same category, is not. So… That seems quite strange, to me on… from the outside.
Kim: Yes, and I understand that completely. But it's something we've done. Like, always.
Jason: So that even says to me that there's some acceptance that there is more to life than can be seen, but it feels to me that there's something, culturally which is in, yes, that's acceptable, the yes, no, but going any further and engaging with spirit. So there is a universal acceptance and an open-mindedness, culturally, then, in that case.
Kim: Yes, because the Sámi people used table tilting, or trollbord, as a way of communicating with their loved ones back in the days.
Jason: So why do you feel it is that that's accepted, but then you go one stage further and there's a complete, almost, fear and a non-acceptance, so much so that you are receiving, you know, not nice treatment from people? What is that, that thing there that stops it developing beyond that?
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Kim: Yeah, I'm not Sámi? I don't know how to say that in English. I'm not of the Sámi people. So… it's like… a cultural thing, I guess, because our Indigenous people are the Sámi people. And they have always… connection with nature, and I'd end with their connection with nature, and their natural connection to… to… to the spirit world. And trance… like, because when you… when you look at trance… because I'm a trance medium, I work a lot… a lot of what I do is in trance. One of my guides, his name is Martin, he has, Yeah, a lot of people have seen him, and I have to say him, because he's so different for me. We don't always agree on things either, right? He's a very different person than I am. And… looking at the way I do trance versus how some of The more… Old ways of doing it has changed, but it's still the same, right? when… you picture the Indigenous people, like the American Indigenous people, or the Norwegian, or whatever. They had dance, they had drums, they had fire, right? and the shaman would enter a trance state. It was wild, it was, it's a lot of fun to be a part of, because I've seen some of those rituals. And… The way we do it, it's so calm. and relax. And… poised? I can… Beautiful.
Jason: Oh, you're really selling it to me! I want to come, I want to have a go.
Kim: as you showed. And when my, my first introduction to trance, was in 2005? Or 2006. I don't remember. And it was something that was… accredited, there's… I'm trying to find the words to not sound rude. It was accredited to the spiritualist movement in late… 1800s, right?
Jason: Yes.
Kim: But… after a while, when I… I really took a deep dive into the trance aspect of it, because my… My introduction to spirit was with physical mediumship. Right? And it was… it was very different from what you hear people say about physical mediumship. We didn't have a darkened room. Well, it was dark, but not black, right? We had… usually had candles, or in the late afternoon, when the… when the sun was setting. And we heard spirit voices coming from the corners of the room. We… the table was moving, things were… moving on their own. And we had fun. We called it… Fun. Right? So, when I first came to England. to explore more of the trance aspect of mediumship, because that's what was the only place I could find it. in Norway. I think, and I'm not sure if what I'm saying is 100% correct, but from my understanding, we're only 2 or 3 people actually demonstrating trance and teaching it.
Jason: Wow. That's just bonkers, isn't it? In a country of… that size, for there to be so few people. When you said that you and Martin differ in opinions.
Kim: Yeah.
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Jason: What opinions do you differ in? I know that's a very broad question. The reason I ask that is because, in my experience of trance, the spirit world, come through, in my experience, normally, with messages of help to touch the collective consciousness of everyone. And in the spirit world, obviously, yes, everyone is their own personality, however, they know the eternal truths. They're very intelligent. So I… I… when you said that, it made me think, well, what opinions could you be differing on, and how so? And also, there's a secondary point to that. A lot of mediums, don't have the openness or the ability to communicate what it is that they don't agree with, and that can be a block within Trance, so the fact that you are bringing that through and there's a difference is very interesting.
Kim: Yeah, Martin, he's way smarter than me. he really is. And the things he's said is… It's, it's so much. There's an author, her name is Vibeke, She's writing a book about His philosophies and what he's saying. And, that's the reason that I've actually heard some of the recordings, because I don't want to listen to them. I know it's me. talking, but I can hear that it's not me, my voice changes, everything changes. And he has said things that… I know, in my mind, for a fact, that's wrong. Right? Things you've learned. Like, 2 plus 2 is 4. And… whenever I've heard things that I say, no, no, no, he's not right, he's wrong. I've had to do research on it, and I've realised usually that Well, he was right. Why didn't I know this from before? And it can be, like, easy things, like, one time he was talking about Mesopotamia and the Sumerians, I think they were called, right? And I thought, okay, I'm a history geek, I love history, I've read so much history. And I thought I had all my facts. perfectly placed. And it turned out I didn't. So… I… working with him has been an extremely learning experience for me, because there are so many themes and things that he talks about that I don't know about. and how to… to… I have to do research and actually learn about them. One time he was talking about essential oils, and how herbs and essential oils basically work. In the body and with the people, and it gave also some… I can call it recipes for how to mix different oils for certain things, and Vibeke, yeah. She's also my circle leader, by the way. She tested them out, she found… People and pests them out, and… Things turned out just the way he… said they would. But because he started talking about essential oils and herbs and natural remedies, I had to take a deep dive into essential oils and herbs. I don't remember anything of what's said or done. when he's… visiting. I call… say that he's visiting, because that's what he is. But that doesn't remove the responsibility from me, because I'm the one who's physically sitting there, and it's my mouth that's being used, it's my mouth that moves, right?
Jason: Hmm.
Kim: And if something would have hap… should happen, or would happen, it would… the responsibility would follow me. I can't put it on Martin in the spirit world.
Jason: It's very interesting, even when you say that, that you're quite discerning about what is being said, because I am very discerning when I listen to Trance and witness it, and my relationship with Trance is I'm forevermore doing more of it. But, you know. we know that the spirit world absolutely, you know, their intelligence, we can't even comprehend it, because it just… I find my mind is being blown all the time by what the spirit world can do. But the fact that when this comes through, you will query it, and then sort of go away. And I understand what you're saying about the responsibility, but there's something in the discernment of you know, what it is that's being brought forward, and you sort of looking into that, and then it's almost in a way that, when you're talking about the essential oils there, it's almost like, I feel, in a sense, that, Martin is putting things forward in a way that's deliberately there to sort of challenge, because that then is igniting something within you to then go and understand that, so then not just Martin is saying it, Kim is then kind of endorsing it, and living the principles of what was said. Because it's no accident, is it, that Martin is bringing… because Martin knows what is in your consciousness at any one time, and he's bringing things, or… the entity there is bringing things forward to invoke that within you, because, they… he knows that you are, a very discerning, character, obviously. So, it's interesting, that relationship, how that sort of changed and evolved over time the more you work, with him, I imagine that's…
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Kim: Yes. Martin has been listening for… how many years? 10, 12 years now? When… when we have done, demonstrations. We call them open seances in Norway. well, it translates to open seances, where people are invited, or they can, you know, come to witness and speak with Martin themselves. I forgot my point now. I ate all my words, I'm sorry.
Jason: Oh, no, you were saying, well, when people, come and see Martin, when you demonstrate, and over time…
Kim: Yes, and the way he's grown, as well, not just, in strength, but… The development of trance is a long walk, and that's a long road, right? even though I've sat with trance since 2000… let's say 2006, It's been a constant development. I sit in circle two times a week. And hopefully I'll be able to sit in my circle for many, many, many, many more years for development, because this development doesn't stop. And… at some point in… I don't remember, quite remember when, but he said that he wanted us to dim the lights, because trance is done in broad daylight, right? Usually. He wanted us to dim the lights, and for the first time in my life, I heard the word cabinet used.
Jason: Because that's…
Kim: nothing we used when we had circles with my mum. Everything was just flying around the room. There wasn't any cabinets. Except the kitchen cabinets, because the circle happened in the kitchen. So he explained to us what we… what he wanted us to do and why. And he also said that we should dim the lights and use either candlelight or red light.
Jason: Why should you? What was his reasoning for… because I've always questioned what the cabinet is all about and the dimming of the lights.
Kim: Yes, and I agree, because that was my question, too, at the time. And this was… Basically, the reason… he said, the reason is that when we put the medium, or the instrument, he calls me the medium, inside the cabinet. it will concentrate the energies. And as I said, this is the first time I'd heard the words, because when I… explored trance, the cabinet wasn't… anything that you used, because trance, as I said, is done in broad daylight. And he wanted us to dim the lights, and use candlelights instead of strong, harsh, white light. And what happened is… After just 2 or 3 times sitting in the cabinet, He started to transfigure. showing himself, completely covering my face. At the end of that time, I… because I had to close my circle down, because I had to move away. The people who were sitting for me told me that they could see, kind of… I can explain it as an astronaut's helmet. forming… around my head. And they, depending on where they sat. Spirit manifested tiny, tiny pictures of their loved ones and spirit guides. in the astronaut helmet, it was like… I didn't see it, I wasn't there.
Jason: Wow.
Kim: Mentally. So that's why, Martin wanted, a cabinet. But after I closed that circle down, that phenomenon stopped happening.
Jason: That's very interesting, isn't it?
Kim: Yes, and many years later, 6 years later, I started sitting in the cabinet again, because Honestly. And this is just me thinking, what's the point? Right? Of sitting in the cabinet, and… I understand how much healing and everything that can bring to a person, especially when spirits speak, when they manifest their own voices, either through the trumpet or, independent voice. But… I didn't… I lost the point of sitting in the cabinet. To be honest, I… It took a long time for me to actually go back inside. And now we sit… For development for… Trumpet mediumship, or… Is it direct voice or independent voice through the trumpet? I don't remember what you say in English.
Jason: I think we'd say direct voice.
Kim: Yeah. Yeah, we see… I believe. Yeah, in Norway, we call it trumpet mediumship. trumpet mediumskap. So, so that's why I don't remember. And it's… Really interesting now, because you… My sitters, they have started to hear this whistle sound. Like, someone is whistling, and… Like, these metallic… Sounds coming from… the trumpet. Which is a lot of fun. I understand.
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Jason: It's fascinating what you're telling me, and it makes sense about what you said about the, the Cabinet, and I feel that… You know, you… one of the things I really take from talking to you today is, you know, and this is an important point for people, is you've been, you know, having this relationship with Spirit since a very young age, but you never arrive. There's always more to be done, there's always work. and development that needs to… to happen, and I feel that there's such a grace, about you and your relationship with Spirit, and the way you describe things, it, you know, you really do come from the heart, and that's, you know, you can… I always feel very much drawn to, you know, people who… you know, within the heart, and lead that way, and let spirit lead the way, because there is a big difference. You know, there's people who are very much in their head, and You know, I sort of have found myself in that world as well. We could have talked about so much today, and I honestly feel, Kim, that I'm sitting here with so many notes of things we haven't even had the chance to talk about, including you standing upside down with easels, doing portraits, with another guide named Claire. But, you know, if people do want to find out more about you, you have your own, lovely podcast, which I'll put the link to in the description. So, it's Soul Sync tradition, then. Leave us on a final thought today, to leave… leave this beautiful conversation.
Kim: a final thought. That's always a hard one, isn't it?
Jason: It is a hard one, and it's… do you know what? I always think it's a hard one to sum up something, but I always feel that it's a lovely way to just tie everything together, today.
Kim: Yes, and… what I want to say is that To the people who are listening, is that Don't let other people define who you are or your development. just… Stay within your own power, because it's your life, and it's your power, and… You are the defining author of… how you… Use that power.
Jason: Couldn't have said it better myself. What a beautiful way to, close the episode. Kim, thank you for coming on The Soul Sync. It's been an absolute delight.
Kim: It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
