Astrology, A Shortcut to the Soul: How to Read Your Birth Chart

Surely there was supposed to be an instruction manual for this.

I think most of us have had that thought at some point. Something handed over with the birth certificate: welcome to Earth, here is everything you need to know.

In my meditation room there is a lovely piece showing my sun rising on one side and my moon setting on the other. I look at it most days. Yet until very recently, if you had asked me what any of it meant, I could not have told you. I work with the spirit world every week, and the sky above my own head was still a beautiful mystery to me.

That began to change when I sat down with astrologer Debra Clement for this week’s episode of Soul Sync. Debra describes the birth chart as “a shortcut to the soul”, and by the end of our conversation, and the reading she very kindly gave me afterwards, I understood exactly what she meant.

Our conversation is rich with insight, and I would love you to listen to it in full. What it did not have room for is the practical part: what to actually look at, where to begin, and how to start reading your own chart. So that is what this post is for. Think of it as the beginner’s guide I wish I had been handed, shaped by what Debra taught me and by what I learned when she turned the lens on my own stars.

Who is Debra Clement?

Debra has been a consulting astrologer for more than 35 years. She specialises in predictive astrology, trains and certifies astrologers through her own professional programme, and hosts the Astrology Unpacked podcast, where she teaches and interprets the current planetary cycles. She has also worked as a medium, and spent many years practising law, having earned her law degree at 40.

Astrology hooked her at 16, when she read Linda Goodman’s Sun Signs, as so many of us did. Yet she did not believe the planets could actually influence her life until, in her twenties, she sat down to study her transits and found they matched the previous year of her life perfectly. For a self-described left-brained, logical person, that was the proof.

Turning it into her full-time work was never the plan. When the US property market crashed in 2008, Debra was working in real estate law and lost her job. After a year of searching, she turned the readings she had been doing part time into her career. Having walked through a few unexpected doors in my own life, I recognised a lot in that story. You can find Debra at debraclementastrology.com.

Why your newspaper horoscope rarely lands

Debra was refreshingly honest about horoscope columns. She used to read them too, and occasionally something hits. A lot of the time, though, it does not land, because it is written for the masses.

Psychology has a name for why those columns can still feel so personal. In 1948, the psychologist Bertram Forer gave his students what he said were individual personality profiles. Every student received the same text, assembled from general statements, and on average they rated it more than four out of five for accuracy. It became known as the Forer effect, or the Barnum effect.

That is precisely why a sun sign column and a birth chart are two very different things. Your sun sign is a single placement, shared with roughly one in twelve people. Your birth chart is a map of where every planet sat, in which sign and which house, at the exact moment and place you arrived. Two people born on the same day, a few hours or a few hundred miles apart, can have strikingly different charts. That specificity is where astrology becomes genuinely interesting.

Step one: get your birth chart (and find your birth time)

Debra’s first piece of advice for anyone curious is simple: you need your date, time and place of birth. The time matters more than most people realise, because it sets the structure of the whole chart, including your rising sign and which planets fall in which houses.

A few practical pointers:

  • Finding your time. In England and Wales, birth certificates do not usually show a time of birth (it is generally recorded only for twins and multiple births). Scottish birth certificates do include it. In many other countries it is held by the register office where your birth was recorded. A parent or relative, a baby book or hospital records may also hold the answer.

  • Drawing your chart. Once you have your details, a free site such as Astrodienst (astro.com) will draw your chart in seconds.

  • No birth time? You can still explore your sun sign and your planets by sign, and usually your moon sign too, unless the moon changed sign that day. Your rising sign and houses need the time.

  • Two websites, two different-looking charts? Check the house system. Many sites default to Placidus, while others use Whole Sign houses. Both are used by professional astrologers, and the planets themselves stay the same.

When your chart appears, it can feel like a lot: a circle, twelve segments, a scattering of symbols and a web of coloured lines. Debra’s word for it was “mind-boggling”, and she meant it kindly. The secret is to read it in layers.

Step two: start with your Big Three (sun, moon and rising)

Debra gave me the clearest definitions I have ever heard:

  • Your Sun is where and how you want to shine.

  • Your Moon is what you need to feel secure.

  • Your Rising sign, also called the Ascendant, is how you approach life and the first impression you give. Debra put it beautifully: imagine she is sitting on a sofa at a party and you walk in. The immediate impression she forms of you is your rising sign. Once she gets to know you, you may turn out to be a little different.

The real insight often lives in how these three relate to each other. Debra’s own Sun is in Capricorn, an achievement-oriented sign, and her Moon is in Libra. Part of her has always wanted to climb the ladder, while her Libra Moon says, yes, but I want to take everybody with me. Seeing that in her chart made sense of a lifelong pull between ambition and keeping the peace.

Mine was just as telling. My Sun and rising sign are both in Virgo, and my Moon is in Taurus. Virgo, Debra explained, is the sign of service, here to improve things. It has a reputation for being nitpicky, and I will hold my hands up to having high standards. As she said, if it was not for Virgo and the engineers, the bridges would not stand. My Taurus Moon explained something else entirely. One of the first things she asked me was whether I am very much into the way things taste and feel, and she said nobody could hand me plastic and pass it off as leather. They could not. I can tell instantly.

Try this: write down your Sun, Moon and rising sign, and notice how each one shows up in an ordinary week. Where do you want to shine? What helps you feel safe? How do people describe you when they first meet you?

Step three: find your chart ruler

The planet that rules your rising sign is known as your chart ruler, and it acts like a thread running through the whole chart. Find your rising sign below, then look at which sign and house its ruling planet sits in.

  • Aries: Mars

  • Taurus: Venus

  • Gemini: Mercury

  • Cancer: the Moon

  • Leo: the Sun

  • Virgo: Mercury

  • Libra: Venus

  • Scorpio: Mars (modern ruler, Pluto)

  • Sagittarius: Jupiter

  • Capricorn: Saturn

  • Aquarius: Saturn (modern ruler, Uranus)

  • Pisces: Jupiter (modern ruler, Neptune)

With Virgo rising, my chart ruler is Mercury, the planet of communication, and mine sits in Libra. Debra read it straight away: a natural communicator, with a little openness to people-pleasing. Both true. Most of my week is spent communicating, whether that is with the spirit world, with sitters or here on Soul Sync.

Step four: the planets and what they represent

Think of the planets as the “what” of your chart, the different parts of you:

  • Sun: identity, vitality and where you want to shine

  • Moon: emotions, needs, security, home and family

  • Mercury: thinking, learning and communication

  • Venus: love, beauty, pleasure and what you value

  • Mars: drive, courage and initiative

  • Jupiter: growth, wisdom and good fortune. Debra describes Jupiter as showing where things could be easy, where we can develop things easily. It expands whatever it touches.

  • Saturn: structure, responsibility, time and life lessons

  • Uranus: change, freedom, originality and the unexpected

  • Neptune: imagination, spirituality and intuition

  • Pluto: depth, power, endings and rebirth

  • Chiron: often called the wounded healer, showing where an old hurt can become a gift for others

  • The North Node: not a planet but a point in space which, as Debra explains, speaks to what our soul came here to do and to learn

You may also see a small “R” beside some planets. That means the planet was retrograde when you were born: from Earth, it appeared to be moving backwards. Many astrologers read a natal retrograde as energy that turns inward first, or develops later in life. Hold on to that one, because it comes up again in my own reading.

Step five: the 12 houses of the birth chart

If the planets are the “what” and the signs are the “how”, the houses are the “where”: the area of life in which that energy plays out. Debra walked through all twelve in the episode, and several of her descriptions surprised me. Here they are in summary, each with a question to take to your own chart.

  1. First house: you, your body and your approach to life. This is where your rising sign begins. How do I meet the world?

  2. Second house: the money you earn, your possessions and your personal values, meaning who and what matters most to you. What do I truly value?

  3. Third house: communication, learning and thinking, as well as siblings. Are you logical or intuitive? How do things come to you? How do I learn and speak?

  4. Fourth house: home, property and ancestry, including the gifts and talents passed down through generations. Debra notes that family lines of mediums and intuitives often show here. What have I inherited?

  5. Fifth house: fun, romance, entertainment, children and creative self-expression, and probably most people’s favourite house. What brings me joy?

  6. Sixth house: daily work and service, routine and physical health, and also, as Debra likes to mention, our furry friends. What does a good day look like?

  7. Seventh house: marriage and committed partnerships, and also best friends, adversaries and divorce. In Debra’s words, it is everyone who is other than you. What do I look for in others?

  8. Eighth house: Debra’s choice for the most complicated and most fascinating house of all. It covers shared money and inheritance, it is a psychic house linked with connecting to the other side, and it is also the underworld of life. What do I share, and what transforms me?

  9. Ninth house: expansion, philosophy, belief, travel and higher knowledge of every kind. Where am I growing?

  10. Tenth house: career and calling, your public life and reputation, at the very top of the chart. Sometimes career and calling are the same thing, and often they are two different things. What do I want to be known for?

  11. Eleventh house: casual friends, colleagues, groups, hopes and wishes. In modern terms, Debra adds, it is also social media and audience. Who are my people?

  12. Twelfth house: long known as the house of sorrow, and also where the intuitive live. Debra associates it with mediumship and with emotional and psychological health, the place where the mind and emotions can help heal the body. What is moving beneath the surface?

A useful tip: an empty house simply means no planet sits there. That area of life is still active in your chart, and you read it through the sign on the edge of that house (its cusp) and that sign’s ruling planet.

Step six: aspects, or how the planets get along

Debra described aspects as how well the planets get along with each other in the wheel. They are the angles between planets, and they are the coloured lines you see criss-crossing the middle of your chart. The main five are:

  • Conjunction (0°): two planets blended together, intensifying each other

  • Sextile (60°): friendly, a door of opportunity

  • Square (90°): creative tension that pushes you to act

  • Trine (120°): easy, natural flow

  • Opposition (180°): a pull between two sides, often lived out through relationships

Debra made a point I found really freeing. Hard aspects can be some of the most productive in a chart. Hard energy is provocative energy, and that is when things happen, including the good things. She says a big success almost always comes with a challenging transit in the background. Easy, flowing energy feels lovely, and sometimes we simply enjoy it rather than make the most of it.

Weaving all of this together is what astrologers call synthesis. Debra was honest that while anyone can learn the basics, the synthesis is complex, and most people benefit from a professional to interpret the full picture. I appreciated that. It is very much how I feel about mediumship: the foundations can be learned by anyone, and the depth comes with years of practice.

What a birth chart can reveal about psychic and mediumistic gifts

This was the part of the conversation where my medium radar really went up. Debra, who has worked as a medium herself, says the gifts show in the chart. The houses most associated with psychic sensitivity are the fourth, eighth and twelfth, and she also looks at how intuitive planets such as the Moon and Neptune connect with the rest of the chart.

She was careful to draw some distinctions that every developing medium would benefit from hearing:

  • A person can be very psychic without being a medium.

  • A person can be a gifted medium without earning a living from it.

  • A gift is one thing, and a career or a public profile is another. Those connections need to be in the chart as well.

Sometimes, she said, she can see a gift clearly in a chart while the person themselves holds some doubt about it, perhaps through self-consciousness, or because something has held them back. I have met so many people like that in my circles.

When she looked at my chart, the signatures were everywhere. My Sun sits in the twelfth house, which she sees as the mark of someone very intuitive. Jupiter is in my eighth house, close to my Moon, and it was retrograde when I was born. Debra has a lot of mediums among her clients, and she has seen Jupiter retrograde in the charts of well-known mediums too. For her it signals a healing gift of some kind, whether that shows up as a psychic, a medium, a Reiki practitioner or even an acupuncturist. Jupiter also rules one of the intuitive houses in my chart, and she asked whether anyone in my family was gifted. My granddad was a medium.

I want to hold this lightly, because I know how a passage like this can land. A chart is a map, and the territory is your own lived experience. I have sat in circles with people whose gifts are extraordinary and who have never looked at a birth chart in their lives. And even the most beautiful psychic signature still needs sitting, practice, patience and good teaching to unfold. My chart did not give me my mediumship. Years of development did. What the chart gave me was confirmation, and a new language for something I had already lived.

If you are curious about your own sensitivity, whatever your chart says, my free online development circle on Tuesday evenings is a lovely place to start exploring it. And if you would like to go deeper, Donna King and I teach a weekly Psychic Development Class, The Power of You, and a weekly Mediumship Development Class, both online.

Transits: how astrology works with timing

Your birth chart is a snapshot of one moment. Transits are what happens next. The planets keep moving, and as they cross the sensitive points in your chart, they coincide with different themes and events in your life. This is Debra’s specialism.

The slow-moving outer planets carry the most weight. Uranus spends around seven years in each sign and Neptune around fourteen, while Pluto, which takes roughly 248 years to travel the whole zodiac, can stay in a single sign for anything from around twelve to more than thirty years. When one of them makes contact with a planet in your chart, Debra says the cycle typically lasts around a year and a half, and it often lines up with a major life change. In her experience, these are the cycles that help get us back on track when we have wandered off our path.

Each planet brings its own flavour:

  • Jupiter tends to expand and bring opportunity.

  • Saturn tests and structures. Your Saturn return, around the ages of 29 and 58, is the best known transit of all.

  • Uranus brings change, freedom and the unexpected.

  • Neptune dissolves boundaries and inspires.

  • Pluto transforms. As Debra puts it, Pluto transforms what it touches, and sometimes it kills it off first before it brings something new in.

Many astrologers also talk about a cluster of transits in the late thirties and early forties, when Uranus opposes its position at your birth and Neptune squares its own. For anyone born in the 1970s or 1980s, Pluto squares its own position around then too. It is often called the midlife transit. If you have noticed a quiet but persistent pull towards a new direction around that age, you are in very good company.

How to look at your own transits: most free chart sites, including astro.com, can show the current planets against your birth chart. Start with the slow ones. Note when Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto form a conjunction, square or opposition to your Sun, Moon, rising sign or chart ruler, and read the theme rather than chasing every daily movement.

That last point matters. Debra does not check her daily planets every day, or even every week. “I don’t live and die by it,” she told me. “And I don’t think anybody should.” Her clients usually see her once a year for a forecast of the year ahead, with precise dates they can keep track of and look back on.

A date for your diary: Mars retrograde, 10 January to 1 April 2027

In my reading, Debra flagged a period that applies to everyone. From 10 January to 1 April 2027, Mars will be retrograde. Mars is the planet of initiation, so she sees it as a less favourable window for launching something new. Her advice was wonderfully practical: if you can, launch before it begins. If you need to launch during it, be prepared to put in a little more effort, treat it as a soft launch, and launch again in April. As ever, she does not live and die by it, but if you are planning a new venture for early 2027, it is worth knowing.

Hard seasons, surrender and the calendar on the wall

One of the most moving things Debra shared came from the early 1990s, when she was going through an extremely stressful personal situation. She looked at what was happening in her chart, understood when the cycle had begun and when it would end, and marked the end date on her calendar. It helped her keep her sanity, she said, because all influences pass, even the challenging ones.

I think there is something in that for anyone moving through a hard season, including grief. Seeing that a season has a shape, a beginning and an end, will not take the pain of it away, and a chart sits alongside support rather than in place of it. Yet for some people, knowing that a season will turn can be a small light to walk towards.

Her second story was about Pluto. A Pluto transit touched the part of her chart connected to income just as the 2008 crash cost Debra her job in law. She kept looking for work, and she also recognised the cycle for what it was. “I didn’t fight it as much,” she said, “but I didn’t just wave a flag of surrender either.”

When she read my chart, she found that I have been moving through one of these Pluto cycles myself: a long season of change around home and family that began around a year and a half ago. Hearing her describe her own moment of surrender, I felt as though I was having exactly the same one. I have spent a lot of my life pedalling uphill, achieving plenty and still pushing against things that were never meant to be mine. The lesson Pluto keeps offering, Debra says, is knowing when to surrender. To me, that means stepping into the rhythm of life rather than fighting it, and I have found that whenever I do, life becomes a great deal easier. The good news she gave me is that this particular cycle is finishing.

Fate, free will and the soul’s agenda

So is everything written in the stars? Debra is emphatic about free will. She believes the soul chooses the moment it incarnates, when the heavens are aligned for the major lessons it has come to learn, and that certain events in life are fated. Over decades of readings, she noticed she could see in a chart when a client had not had both parents available in early childhood, whether through separation, illness or loss. It was validated every time, and it led her to believe that the soul chooses its parents and its experiences.

“When the issue is in the natal chart,” she told me, “so is the answer.”

That is the line I keep coming back to. Your chart is not a pass to excuse a temper or a late start. It is an invitation to ask: what am I here to learn from this? An assertive streak might be there to teach you to care more about other people, or it might be there so you can stand up for someone who cannot stand up for themselves.

My own feeling is that we arrive with a hazy agenda and plenty of room for choice. We can take the direct route, or the scenic, round-the-houses route, and the spirit world will, to varying degrees, keep nudging us back towards our path. We usually know when we have drifted, because we feel it in the body, in the gut. Ever since I started following that gut feeling, life has flowed far more easily.

Test your chart the way a good sitter tests a reading

Here is the thought I have been sitting with since this conversation, and it comes straight from mediumship.

In my readings, I ask sitters to answer with just yes, no, don’t know or maybe. (I explain why in my approach to mediumship.) A no is every bit as valuable as a yes, because it lets me go back to the spirit communicator for clarity and keeps the reading on track. Some of the strongest evidence I have ever given began as a “don’t know” that only made sense weeks later.

Debra works in a remarkably similar way. During readings, she asks questions to test the patterns she is seeing, and when a prediction misses, she asks clients to tell her so she can go back and learn from it. She told me about a client, some twenty years ago, whose chart showed he would be out of work by April. He had been thinking of retiring, so he was delighted. April came and went, and a month or two later his wife rang. He had not retired. He had been fired. It was a Pluto transit, and Debra went back over the chart to understand what she had missed.

So here is my suggestion for working with your own chart: treat it as evidence to test, rather than a verdict to accept. Read a placement, then hold it up against your life. Yes, no, don’t know, maybe. Keep the yeses. Learn from the nos. Let the don’t knows sit for a while, because some of them may make perfect sense later. It honours your own experience, and it is the same humility that makes for good mediumship. As Debra says, none of us are perfect, and in this work it is important to know that.

What my astrology reading taught me

After we stopped recording, Debra very generously gave me a reading. I am keeping most of it private, but several things she saw have stayed with me, and I think the lessons reach well beyond my own chart. As I said at the end of the episode, it was honestly like reading an instruction manual to my life.

The gift was confirmed, rather than created. Debra has observed something with Jupiter retrograde: there is life before 40 and life after 40. She described me as a rosebush. Since birth I have been blooming, with job after job flowering and falling away, and one bud that never quite opened. Somewhere between 38 and 42, she said, that bud opens, and it never falls off the bush. I am 39, and over the last few years I have watched mediumship gently draw me away from everything else.

Healing through words. Chiron sits near the top of my chart, close to the Midheaven, the point of career and calling. In mythology, Chiron was a centaur and a healer who could heal everyone but himself. Debra read that as healing being part of my life path, and with Chiron in Gemini, it comes through words. Then she asked whether I write. I told her no, although I had felt called to over the years. You are reading this, so make of that what you will.

I am here to learn to receive. The South Node shows what comes naturally, and mine is in my first house. If there is a mess, Debra said, I clean it up myself, and my first thought is never who could help me with this. The other end of that axis points towards collaboration, letting other people pull their weight, and learning to receive. That one landed. It is a lesson I am leaning into, whether that is co-teaching with Donna King, co-hosting our free circle, or handing the microphone to my guests on Soul Sync.

An unconventional path is part of the design. Uranus in my third house, opposing the tenth, told Debra that my route to mediumship was anything but traditional. Magician, chef, cabin crew, police officer, legal recruiter, business owner and now medium: I would say that is fair. She also noted that the third house is connected with the hands, sleight of hand included, which made perfect sense of the young magician I once was.

Know when to surrender, and when to build. Alongside the Pluto cycle that is drawing to a close, Debra pointed to Jupiter moving through my eleventh house, the house of groups and audiences, as a strong time for building community. Looking at how many new faces have joined our free circle lately, and how Soul Sync keeps growing, I can feel it.

Debra ended our conversation with a hope I share. Astrology, she said, can help us “not just be a better person, but… be the person that I feel we came in here to be.” Whatever your stars say, I hope this guide helps you take a first step towards reading them.

Spiritual Takeaways

  1. Your sun sign is one placement. Your birth chart is the whole map, and all you need to draw it is your date, time and place of birth.
  2. Start with your Big Three: your Sun is where you want to shine, your Moon is what you need to feel secure, and your rising sign is how you meet the world.
  3. Find your chart ruler, the planet that rules your rising sign, and see which house it lives in. It is the thread through your whole chart.
  4. The fourth, eighth and twelfth houses carry intuitive and psychic signatures. A chart shows potential, and development is how it unfolds.
  5. Watch the slow planets. Transits from Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto mark the great seasons of change, and every one of them passes.
  6. "When the issue is in the natal chart, so is the answer." Ask what each placement is here to teach you.
  7. Test your chart the way a good sitter tests a reading: yes, no, don't know, maybe. Keep the yeses, learn from the nos, and let the don't knows sit.

Astrology questions, answered

What is a birth chart?
A birth chart, also called a natal chart or horoscope, is a map of where the Sun, Moon and planets were in the sky at the exact time and place you were born. It is divided into twelve houses, each representing an area of life.

Do I need my exact birth time?
For your rising sign and houses, yes, ideally to within a few minutes. The rising sign changes roughly every two hours, so even an approximate time helps. Without one, you can still work with your planets by sign.

What are the psychic houses in astrology?
Astrologers such as Debra Clement associate the fourth, eighth and twelfth houses with intuition and psychic sensitivity, alongside planets such as the Moon and Neptune. A psychic signature in a chart shows potential, and development is how that potential unfolds.

What is a Pluto transit?
A Pluto transit happens when Pluto, moving slowly through the sky, forms a significant angle to a planet or point in your birth chart. These cycles typically last around a year and a half and are associated with deep transformation: endings that make room for new beginnings.

Is astrology the same as mediumship?
They are different practices. Astrology interprets the positions of the planets. Psychic work reads the energy and information around a person, and mediumship is communication with people in the spirit world. Debra has practised all three, and she finds astrology the most precise for timing.

Is astrology scientifically proven?
No, and it is worth saying plainly. Controlled tests have not supported it, the best known being physicist Shawn Carlson’s double-blind study published in Nature in 1985, in which astrologers could not match birth charts to personality profiles better than chance. Astrologers have challenged how such studies are designed, and the debate continues. For me, astrology earns its place the way any spiritual practice does: through what it helps you notice, and what you choose to do with it.

Listen, learn and connect

Listen to the full conversation with Debra at the top of this page, or on the Soul Sync podcast page. New episodes go out every Monday and Thursday.

Learn more with Debra. Her closing advice was to look beyond the daily horoscope, and to start by listening to an astrology podcast. Hers is Astrology Unpacked, with mini lessons every week. You can also book an astrology reading with Debra or explore her courses at debraclementastrology.com.

Explore your own gifts. Join our free Tuesday development circle, or book a place on The Power of You (Sundays, from 25 October) or the Mediumship Development Class (Mondays, from 26 October).

Book a reading. If a conversation like this has stirred something for you, you are welcome to book a psychic mediumship reading on Zoom, wherever you are in the world.

Full episode transcript

Lightly edited for readability. Choose a chapter to jump straight to it, or open them all.

00:00Introduction: a week of trance at Arthur Findlay College, and turning to the stars

Jason 00:07

Hello there. And welcome back to Soul Sync. I hope you've had a lovely weekend. I have literally just spent all day getting organised. After getting back from a week at the Arthur Findlay College, aka Hogwarts. And I'll be honest with you, I really didn't know what to expect from this week. I've been immersed in trance mediumship and I've done trance quite a few times now in terms of throwing myself into it for a week, and I went in with a very open mind.

But I feel like I've been healed in so many ways. I've come back with buckets of inspiration and a to do list, as long as my arm, the spirit world have inspired me to say the least. I'm going to do a whole episode on what happened during that week because so many things came up for me, which I think will be really interesting to share with you.

But I'm going to do a whole nother episode on that, because today's conversation is all about turning our attention to the stars and whether they might have something to tell us about the lives we're living down here. Now, I don't know about you, but there's been moments when I thought to myself, surely there was supposed to be instructions for this?

Something handed over with the birth certificate. Welcome to Earth, Jason. This is everything you need to know. Well, my guest today has a rather interesting perspective on just that. I'm joined by the lovely Debra Clement. She's an astrologer, a teacher, and a fellow medium who describes the birth charts as a shortcut to the soul. And I'll be honest, I came into this conversation with plenty of curiosity and very little understanding of what all those planets and houses actually meant.

So if that's you too, you're in very good company. Together, we explore what Debra believes our charts can tell us about our personalities, our patterns, and even our spiritual gifts. Now, following on from this episode, Debra did me a reading which was so confirming because it came up all over my stars, my houses and so on that, mediumship is literally written for me in the stars, so to speak, and at this particular crossroads that was really helpful and confirming to hear that.

And I think there's something in, understanding this which can be very illuminating in what our souls purpose actually is. And I think that, I've got books on astrology which, no word of a lie, are like the old-style Yellow Pages, absolutely thick, and there's so much to it. So Debra does a good job here at simplifying this the best she can.

We got into some lovely questions. Could our souls choose certain experiences before we're born? How much is fate and where does freewill come into this? And when life changes direction? Could it be bringing us closer to something that we've wanted to do all along? Now Debra's own journey took her from practising law to becoming a full-time astrologer.

So there's a very human story running through this conversation. And I'll tell you what there's plenty of: lots of laughter and plenty to leave you thinking about on your own journey. Now, delving into astrology, I, like I said, there is a lot to it and some people can spend their whole lives studying birth charts. What the planets are doing, where they're going and what this means.

And it could be. I think that's half the reason why I've not really, looked into it in too much great detail on my meditation room wall I've got a lovely thing that says what house I am, what my star sign is, these things I need to know. But I'll be honest with you, outside of horoscopes, I haven't done a whole lot of looking into this particular area, so it was very illuminating, for me as well.

But, I think what I came away with from this conversation was it really helps to know this because, there's a lot of significance in all of astrology. So get comfortable, bring your curiosity, and let's spend some time with the absolutely lovely Debra Clement.

04:17Meet Debra Clement: astrologer, former attorney and medium

Jason 04:17

Debra, welcome, welcome, welcome to Soul Sync.

Debra 04:21

Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Jason 04:24

Well, I'm very excited to have you on. And as I was saying, before we even hit the record button in the form that you filled out before you came on, thank you for that. I started off highlighting it, and I've highlighted nearly all of it because there was just so many interesting things that you do. And I think we're going to talk about today.

So tell the lovely listener about you, who you are to begin with.

Debra 04:44

Well, I am an astrologer. I suppose what I do is, I am a full-time astrologer. I'm also a medium, though I've stepped back from that and I had a career as an attorney as well. So it's been an interesting run. It's been an interesting one. And honestly though, astrology, since I was about 16, I read Linda Goodman Sun signs, like many other people, sort of got hooked on it.

I loved it, but the truth is, while I was very much into the sun sign as a personal traits in the planets, I did not believe that the planets in the heavens could have any influence over my life. And so, you know, fast forward and I specialise. I'm a predictive astrologer, so one day I was just studying and I decided to look at transits.

I guess I was, I don't know, in my 20s I had been divorced and had a little more time. And as I looked at it, I thought, oh my God, look at this. And it matched up perfectly, excuse me, to, you know, my past experiences, past how I experienced life, let's say, in the past year or so.

And so that was it. It was the proof. I've always been more of a left brained, logical type of person, you know, an organised person.

Jason 06:12

Which you would be, working in the law, wouldn't you? It's very much that side of the brain. I imagine it's almost a luxury to be in the right side at times.

Debra 06:22

But even with that, though, I do want to say I got my law degree at 40. So this was not something that, you know, as started young, I had a lot of I don't know if I could count all the jobs that I actually had. I worked as a secretary for many years. I was very traditional. I really wanted to get married, have a family, you know, have a house.

I had some ambition, thinking I'd go to school later in life. But, you know, life happens, right? And sort of gets us where we need to go.

Jason 06:50

It does. And even your story of how you kind of stepped into the astrology almost like, sort of full force in it made me very much think of my own, position at the moment with mediumship and how I've said, you know what I'm doing, I'm here serving spirit. I'm going into this. I know this is what I should be doing.

Every fibre of my soul is pulling me towards it. And it felt very much like that's what it did. But that's what you did with it. But for it to even have that revelation, you know, I will say this from the very beginning to the lovely listener: I have a lovely figure in my meditation room, which is my sun rising in this and my moon setting over here.

But I'm a medium. I can't tell you what any of that means. So I think I'm going learn a lot. So how did it change your life? How did you see your life in that reflection? What did it look like to you?

07:44From law to astrology after the 2008 crash, and why astrology is not woo-woo

Debra 07:44

So. So it's interesting because I do want to say this was I was drawn to astrology and I was very passionate about it. The full-time career propelling me full-time came because of the market crash in the US in 2008, and I at that time was working in real estate law. So I found myself unemployed and after a year looking for a job, it was like, well, I made money from this part time and it was fun and it I turned it into the full-time endeavor.

So I really felt like it was where I was supposed to be. And life made certain that I stayed on that path and that I did get there. But for astrology and it's not mystical, I know a lot of times it's looked at very much like, oh, you know, it's a little bit woo-woo. It really isn't. There is a process to it.

And when I say anyone can learn it, it is very left brained. But it's sort of like you know, it kind of reminds me in some ways I'm going to say, go out on the limb here and say law and medicine, that you start with a basic, which is the natal chart, and then you go into specialties like predictive and relationship.

What it did for me though, is it helped show me why I experienced life the way I did. And also it. And this came with a lot of study, though I don't want anyone to think I just looked and it was like, well, I just got it all. But it was able to show me where I could make changes.

I saw patterns in my life, and then I saw it reflected in the chart and I thought, okay, I'm here to learn this. And I've always found that when the issue is in the natal chart, in the horoscope, so is the answer. But we have free will. How quickly we get there or not is certainly up to us, but I am a big believer that we do come here, certainly to learn.

And so when I work with my clients, that's a big part of the work. It's very validating and I think that is a very big benefit of astrology. I think it's underrated to sit with a stranger and have someone talk about your life and experience things that you've had, especially patterns, and it validates. There are times when it's like, and even people will come to me and I'll take up a chart.

And I'm sure you would have been an example and said, well, do you realize how intuitive you are? Do you realize you have this type of gifts? And people will say to me, you know, like, yeah, some people really do, but some people know it's there, but they've got that doubt. They have that hesitancy. And I just think that is so valuable to have this unbiased, you know, stranger be able to tell you something.

10:20A shortcut to the soul: is your birth chart an instruction manual?

Jason 10:20

But to be quite frank, it almost sounds like the instruction manual. It almost sounds like why wasn't I given one when I was born, you know, with my birth certificate?

Debra 10:28

Well, so my beliefs and this is something I came to believe as well, over again through years of practice is I do believe and I say the horoscope, it's a shortcut to the soul. And I do believe at the time of our birth, I believe our soul. It's imprinted with whatever the soul has come here for, what it's intended to do.

And not every event that happens in life is fated by no means. But I do believe we come in here with a certain a hazy agenda. But there are certain things we want to learn, certain connections we're going to make. And when we look at that chart, what is the purpose of that chart? I think it's to remind us when we sort of get off track or when we're confused.

It's a resource. So it is a manual and people will call it a handbook or a manual, and there's definitely something to that. But it all comes down also right to the interpretation of it. And that can certainly vary according, you know, to astrologers. So different practices. But my belief is that it is basically the shortcut to the soul.

11:33Where to start: why your time of birth matters

Jason 11:33

So as someone sort of sitting here right now, probably like a lot of the listeners going, right, okay, I've got a specialist, I've got you here, Debra, who's you know, studied this for many years. What do I need to be looking at? What should I be knowing here.

Debra 11:48

In terms of the horoscope chart? You mean if someone's looking at the chart.

Jason 11:52

I'm guessing, yes. I guess right now I'm thinking to myself, like, I, I have no idea. Rather than what it says at the back of the newspaper about what love interests might come into my life, which don't seem to arrive. So I'm not sure where my sun is at the moment.

Debra 12:07

Oh, so that's a great point. That's a great question. So what I would say to anyone who's interested in astrology or, you know, we read the daily papers. Listen, I used to read them to in the monthly horoscopes and sometimes something might hit and let's be honest, a lot of times it doesn't land because it's written for the masses.

And so that is why I will say the time of your birth is very, very important because that is going to set the structure of the chart. It establishes, we say, people hear, what's your rising sign? What is your ascendant? And there is a sign that starts the chart at the first house. And it's how you approach life, that wheel that people look at and it's like, oh my God is mind boggling.

12 houses, different areas of life. But really, I would say for the average person, the most important thing to know is your date, time, place of birth. And if you look at that wheel, it is complicated. It is. So it's not just you, but I would say I'm just trying to think on this a second. Of what I would say is the most important thing to really know about the chart for the layperson is you can learn it.

There's a lot of good material, I will say online, but you really need a professional to interpret it for you.

Jason 13:27

Is that because of the reflective nature of it? And it's hard to see those things in yourself or.

Debra 13:33

Actually, no, it's just because it is such a complex process. Every house has different meanings. Every planet has a role in your chart. The planets we call aspects. So how well or not do they get along with each other in that wheel? And each planet is in charge of some of those houses.

13:56Synthesis, prediction and getting through hard cycles

Debra 13:56

And so it's all intertwined. And that's what we call the synthesis of it. But I will say, and I sort of went off track myself here, but with the predictive part of it, when we are trying to predict a theme or an event, you know, as the case may be, it's not going to land for the general public when we're just picking one thing for everyone, because the movements of the planets are precise in the heavens and how they connect to your particular horoscope, where your planets are in your chart, especially because yours are different than mine.

So you can be having connections going on in your life can be, let's say, very exciting now, or it could be very challenging. And, you know, I might be sailing through or vice versa. For me, the predictive part of it, I did go through a period of my life or a couple of years in the early 90s. I had a personal situation just extremely stressful, and I took a calendar.

I looked and saw what was going on in my chart. I understood it, I knew when it started, I knew when it was going to end. And I actually marked the date on the calendar helped me keep my sanity. It really did, because I thought, this is coming to an end because all influences pass, even the challenging ones and it really comes down to free will.

I do want to stress that. I can't stress that enough. Even when things are so hard. It's how we can work with the energy. So if we see a hard cycle coming up, it doesn't mean it's going to be doom and gloom. And sometimes it's hard energy. That's provocative energy. That's when events happen and that includes good events.

You have a big success in your life. I'm telling you, there's going to be some transit going on. That is a hard one. Not just these easy flowing ones. Easy flowing is great, but easy flowing is also I feel great. I feel good, and maybe I don't, you know, make the most of it.

15:55The 12 houses of the horoscope, explained

Jason 15:55

But I don't know what cosmic transition I've been in, but I think I've been out in the Milky Way for a very long time because I've, I've been doing a lot and lots of growing. But you say about it being complicated and needing someone who really knows what they're doing. And of course, you know, the universe is mind boggling.

You know, even the planets, how they're evolving around each other, what's going on up there. I'm saying this from a very layperson's viewpoint here, but there is a lot going on, so I can understand why it takes someone to really be able to understand interpret that. You talk about the 12 houses of life. And, you know, as you talk about that, it's making even the tarot jump into my mind to what do the houses represent and how do these aspects of life, you know, connect with us down here, away from the planets or with the planets, however you want to phrase it?

Debra 16:47

Well, certainly. So everyone has a horoscope. There's 12 houses in it. That's for all of us. And so the first house in the horoscope, it represents you personally, even your physical body. But it's really speaks to also your approach to life. And that's what we also say the ascendant or the rising sign. And when I first meet you, for example, if I were sitting, I'm at a party, I'm sitting on the sofa and you walk in, I'm going to get an immediate impression of you.

That is what I'm seeing is what we'll say is the ascendant or the rising sign. Now, when I get to know you, it might be accurate, might turn out that it's a little bit different because it is just this first impression. The second house, that's money and that's a house everyone gets very interested in because it is our money, it's our possessions, but it's money that we earn.

We go to work is mostly it's more like a salary, but it's also our values are personal values. And by that I mean who and what is important to you? What are your priorities? Third House communications. How do you learn? How do you think? How do you speak? Are you logical or are you intuitive? How do things come to you?

And I didn't say, also your siblings, we can tell something about your siblings in that house if you have them. Fourth house is your home. It's your physical home. It's your ancestry. It also can include generational, things that are passed down to generations, not just property or business, but even gifts and talents. So sometimes you'll see, especially with mediums and intuitive, like we've got this long line of, you know, my mother and my grandmother and my great grandfather that shows in the fourth house, but it's a house of home.

It is a house of property. Fifth house, house of fun, probably most people's favorite house. It's romance. It is social events. It's entertainment. It's also children, you know, what are our children like? And generally the fifth house we call creative self-expression. So it does take in artistic. If you're a bit artistic, it could be a sports person. Sixth house is work and service.

It's also pets. I like to mention that because a lot of people don't, but it's also a little furry friends and work and service work as opposed to the job. Not necessarily your calling or your career, but it's more about the daily routine and the daily type of work that you do. And it is your physical health, seventh house marriage and partnership or marriage and committed relationships.

It's basically everyone else who is other than you, and that includes your adversaries, something else that's often overlooked. When people think of the seventh House, we think of just the romantic part and the marriage part. It's also the house of divorce. It's a house of our best friends. Eighth house probably. To me, it's the most complicated house. Most fascinating house.

Honestly, in the entire horoscope, because on one hand, it's about money. It's money that you share with other people. So it gets complicated. It's money that you don't earn, which would be a lottery. Winning could also be public assistance. We used to call it the house of the occult. It's a psychic house, but it's a psychic house in the sense of.

Yes. Connecting, let's say to the other side. It's also the house where I'm going to be frank, where people think of, let's say, demons and anything of that nature and anything that's terrifying is eighth House as well. And it's a house of, well, crime. Organized crime, murders, all those type of things.

Jason 20:39

And it doesn't sound like a house I want to visit, that's for sure.

Debra 20:42

No. Well, it is the underworld. Honestly, it's the underworld. But on a lighter note, then you get to the ninth house, which is a house of expansion. This is the house where we broaden our horizons is philosophy. Could be things like even religion. Your belief systems, ninth house. But it's also travel. It's faraway places and it's higher knowledge, which takes in every kind of knowledge that there is.

And it's where we continue to grow and to blossom. The 10th house is the highest point in the chart, and we say it's the House of career. Sometimes we'll call it a House of Destiny. I do stick more with career or calling. And here's the thing sometimes career and calling are the same thing. That's wonderful. A lot of times they are not.

And so you find them both in the 10th house. That's the public house. That's where everyone sees what you're doing. It's your status. It's your reputation. The 11th house. It's a house of, I will say, friends, but more casual friends. It's your colleagues. It's your hopes. It's your wishes. It's where we find the type of groups that you like to hang out with.

And the 12th house, which is always known for many years as a house of sorrow, and it is the 12th house. But that's also where the intuitive live. It's a very intuitive house. Psychic house mediumship is 12th house, and it's also a house of psychological health or emotional health. Negatively, it could be addictions, but it is also a house where we're able to heal ourselves, where that mind can help, I should say the mind.

But the emotions can help heal or harm the body. You'll find that in the 12th house as well. And that is just like, you know, a quick round trip of the 12 houses.

22:36Sun versus Moon: the insight that surprised Debra most

Jason 22:36

As you were going through them. There were certain houses right where my medium radar was going off, and I was thinking to myself, 12th house. Yes, I feel like I've spent a fair bit of time there. And there were other houses that were jumping out at me. And I guess what I wanted to ask you as well is when you first became aware with this, what was it that most surprised you that you really went okay, you know, that makes sense now about me.

That's why that happens. Or, you know, that was the way I felt.

Debra 23:06

And it's a very simple one. So the sun, the sun is basically our personality and but I will say the sun in the horoscope, it's where and how you want to shine the moon. It's what you need to feel secure. And so my sun and my moon are in conflict with each other. They're at odds. All right.

My sun is in Capricorn. My moon is in Libra. And so that sun in Capricorn up there, it's an achievement oriented, oriented sign. And it has been a conflict with me because there's a part of me that says, I want to climb up that ladder, and then that Libra moon of mine says, yeah, but I want to take everybody with me.

And, you know, I say it is a part of like little people pleasing of, you know, I want to go up there, but I still want everybody to like me, even if I'm their boss. And it made that just it made perfect sense to me in different ways, because there was always this conflict where, yes, I had to do this, but then I wanted to keep the peace.

Jason 24:07

Yeah, like almost like people pleasing tendencies, always wanting to sort of appeal to everyone, I guess, in some way.

Debra 24:13

Oh, no. Absolutely, absolutely.

Jason 24:16

I think there's a lot of that in a lot of us sensitives. I do think that because I feel that we yeah, it's almost like in my earlier life I would almost seek love out. And it was almost like I would almost see it as something that I would, you know, Chase. Well, definitely in my 20s. I don't know what I'm saying.

Maybe there was like no two ways about it. That was how it was.

Debra 24:35

No, I do think that I do think there's something to it. I do agree with you on that. With the sensitives.

24:42Astrology through a medium's eyes: gifts, signatures and earning a living

Jason 24:42

So something about this being the shortcut to the soul, you know, and you come at this from a very interesting perspective because we're only so far we've only talked about one string to your bow. The other is you are a fellow medium as well.

Debra 24:57

Yes.

Jason 24:57

Which adds a whole nother dimension to this. And obviously I've waited 20 minutes to mention that to build up the anticipation. And we haven't even started yet, have we? So, you know, talking about this from a medium mystic perspective, when you say that it is a short cut, I mean, it sounds to me that it's not just a short cut to the.

So it very much is a doorway into it. Looking at that from a medium mystic perspective, how would you, you know, explain that to the listener? Because we have many mediums who listen to this show.

Debra 25:28

So I'm going to say looking at from the astrological perspective, yes, you look at that horoscope a medium, the gifts, the ability. It's in that horoscope I can see that there are certain houses or certain signatures that are. I'm. I say they're just there. They are there. And you can tell as a person really, sometimes I'll look at a chart and it's the person may be very psychic, but they may not be a medium.

Right. There's a difference. And then you have mediums and there may be a lot of talent, but they may not make any money from it. You can have a gift does not mean you are going to be able to earn a living with it does not mean you are going to become famous for it. Those connections have to be in the chart and they are certain things that are common.

But it does show it shows differently in everyone's chart. And for some people I can look at it and see, oh, you've got this gift. And I'll say two kinds because it'll happen. I'll ask them, are you aware of this, that you have this? And sometimes I'll just ask. I know there's a doubt there. They know they have it, but there's something that has either they're self-conscious about it or there's something where they've doubted themself or something has hindered them.

They need to get past to really get to that.

26:46Jason's winding path: magician, chef, cabin crew, police officer, recruiter, medium

Jason 26:46

It's so interesting because even as you're talking about that, it's making me look back at my background because I've got one of these, like you, very, very bizarre backgrounds where I started life as a magician, when I first left school, then went off to become a chef. Then I was cabin crew for Virgin Atlantic. Then I was a police officer, then I was a legal recruiter, then I was a business owner.

Now I've just become a full-time medium, which I'm feeling invigorated by. Today I am feeling so ready to take on this. But you're right. Because I do meet lovely healers all the time and people who've got spiritual gifts. There's no two ways about that. But you don't just make an income from it. Because that's separate, you know, it's about how you put yourself out there, your business savviness, to be honest with you.

You know, if I was to look at my mediumship balance sheet right now, it be God knows how much in the red. Because I don't think I've, you know, I've, I've never really charged for readings until, you know, fairly recently. And then I thought you know what my mediumship I respect it, I own it, I know that's what I'm meant to be doing.

I'm going to seize it and really step into it because I want to, you know, do that. But it's funny how life leads you to these points, because when I look back at my background now and I look at the, oh, passion for being on stage is the magician aspect of it, the flair for business, for I'd sell bangles in the playground to make money, and then the flamboyance of Virgin.

And the police officer days, I'll tell you this, [unclear]. I was just grateful every day to be on one side of the fence. And I thought, I'm losing all faith in humanity. But all these life events, I look back at them now going, this isn't just by coincidence.

It's here. It must be written in the stars. And I guess it really is. From that perspective, I.

28:39Does the soul choose its parents? Patterns in the chart

Debra 28:39

Believe it is. And one of the things I will say, because as I had my doubts initially of, wow, can these planets really even influence my life? So as time went on and I started, I started doing professional readings. I think I was about 30, you know, and I was a single parent and then I was just doing them as good, nice extra money.

Never thought I was going to do this for a profession. And back then it just really wasn't much of a profession, you know? Certainly wasn't like it is today. And I would do these readings and at that time I would do them. I'd record them on a cassette tape. Yes, I'm that old. And I would mail them to people.

And what I started noticing, even when I started doing, you know, readings over the course of years because you have to see something many times before you say, wow, this is a pattern, is I would have a client and I would look at that chart and I would know that this client, when they were born, when they were a child, I was in, you know, early years of childhood, they did not have both of their parents available.

Sometimes I felt they might have passed, it might have been a divorce, but I knew there was something here, a separation with the parent. They did not have the might have been an illness. Sometimes it was clear, sometimes it wasn't, and it would be validated every time. And that's what got me honestly thinking. And I thought, how can I look at this chart?

And I'm seeing a pattern here with the planets in certain placements. This was not just like I'm intuitive, you know, or I'm getting some connection or a download. And I thought it has to be. Then that the soul chooses its parents. It has to be that it chooses this experience. That's why it's memorialized, so to speak, in this chart.

And to go back to that again, it's sometimes when we have issues in life and this was true for me. It's not that I'm going to say, oh, here's a, here's a pass for you, because it's in your chart. You know, you're a late bloomer or you know what, you've got a temper, but it's in your chart.

So it's okay, but it still gives you validation and a reason saying, okay, I have it. It's a reason. What am I supposed to learn from it? Because to be honest, maybe having a very assertive personality or a dominant personality, and you may be here to learn to have more awareness and care more about other people, but you might also be here to use that, because you're that assertiveness, let's say, is going to allow you to stand up for somebody who's not capable of doing it for themself.

31:08Incarnation, fate, free will and soul contracts

Jason 31:08

And it's is so interesting because even recently, I've been reflecting on us coming down here and choosing an incarnation, how it all works. And I honestly say this all the time. The more I know, the more I don't know, the more questions I've got. Because it is just fascinating. Even the way that we get selected to come down here and how that works, and the illusion of being placed into the body.

And you know, I honestly have said so many times now, but I'm spending the second half of my life unlearning half of what I've learned in the first half and in trying to, expand my thinking in the other half. But it's when you talk about you know, I mean, it makes sense the planet. So at a certain point, we are all energy.

Energy is what we are. Energy is everything. We are all one in the same. Whatever you want to call it. But when that moment happens, it's you believe from what you have started. But that moment of creation of a soul coming down is because I'm just trying to understand how that happens.

So this is where you could go down so many rabbit holes. How it happens. So the moment that is happening energetically, why is it that house or that star sign is coming into that person? What's going on there from your belief system?

Debra 32:25

I'll just tell you of my belief. Yes. Because in the scheme of eternity, right? We've all got plenty of time. And so I do believe the soul picks the moment and they incarnate when I'm just going to say the heavens are aligned, so to speak, for the most part, for their major, let's say, their major lessons or the major point the time will set the structure of the chart of where the planets are going to fall.

And I just always say this on the other side, it's easy. I feel like it's so easy on the other side, you know, know it all on the other side here we're like, what, what, what? But that's what I believe. I just believe that the soul chooses that moment. And there are major, as I said, not everything, not every event is fated.

But I do believe there are certain events in life that are fated, and that goes back to again. Well, how can I see if a child came in and they didn't have both of their parents? I feel like that had to be fated if I could see it in the chart. And I believe that was chosen.

Jason 33:31

I believe a lot. And this is from my belief system. I believe that a lot is fate. To some degree, I do believe there are specific events that we have to do, things that we've agreed, lessons that we need to learn. And we sign a soul contract in order to come down here. This is what we're going to learn.

I then believe what happens is we then are guided along the way, depending on how in alignment with our soul and guides and whatever we are, we can take the easy route. Or we can take the scenic round the houses route. And you know, the spirit world. will, to different degrees, come and obviously always try and get you back on the right path.

But you do have free will, you know, you could be great at something, but if you choose apparently to go down the wrong path, then that's not going to happen. But you know when you're going down the wrong path because you feel it, you feel it in your bones, you feel it in your stomach. And I always have, ever since I have adopted the follow my gut feeling, even though I didn't really know what the gut feeling was properly until many years later.

As soon as I took that approach, generally life was going quite swimmingly.

34:42Outer planets and Pluto transits: when life changes direction

Debra 34:42

And that is it goes back to the free will. So I do believe that, well, here we're growing up, we're getting, you know, getting older. So if I'm looking at the planets and I will say in particular the outer planets, which are Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, they're in a sign eight years, 14 years. Oh, and Pluto varies because it takes over 200 years to go through the zodiac.

230 years, I believe. And I should know that by heart. But for the moment, not sure. But anyway, it goes really, I guess. Yeah, it's one of those things, right? But the point is, it takes a long time. And so when those transits, as we call them, come and transits when that planet's connecting to something in your chart, those are very significant.

The cycle will last that transit about a year and a half. And they very often coincide with major life changes depending on the nature of the planet. And those are the ones that I do feel when we're off track. They help get us back on track. And I mean, that was certainly my experience when I was in law, and I was very happy in LA at the time.

I really just want to say that. And Pluto Transit came along and first it put me in a very strong position, and then it made a contact that was connected to my income, quite frankly. And Pluto.

Jason 36:00

Oh no, it didn't go there.

Debra 36:02

Yeah. Pluto transforms what it touches. And by transform, sometimes it kills it off first before it brings something new in. And that's exactly what happened. And I saw that. And that was one thing I will say at that point in my life, I didn't fight it. I looked at the energy and I said, okay, I'm going to still try to get another position.

I'm not just going to give up. But as the time went on, I thought, all right, this is a Pluto transit. This is done. It's time for rebirth. I did try to still find a way to be reborn in the legal field, but ultimately it came down to this is what I had left, so to speak. And I decided, okay, this is what I'm going to do with it.

So it helped me accept it. I didn't fight it as much, but I didn't just wave a flag of surrender either. And but I do believe those major cycles do come and coincide with major events, and that's why people have signed up to say, oh, I want to experience this type of event, or sometimes even an illness or whatever the challenge may be.

They occur during certain challenging, influences, but you and I could have the same event going on astrologically in our chart. We're going to experience it to some degree. Maybe the same if it's Uranus. Yes, it might be a little bit of that instability or an excitement, but the actual events are going to differ depending on, you know, what you've agreed to, what I've agreed to and then free will.

Yeah, we can absolutely just sort of, you know, do what we want and just run amok.

37:36Planning around difficult cycles (and the traffic-light app)

Jason 37:36

When even when you're talking there about this particular awful period when Pluto came into your money zone, and you know, cut it off and you stepped at that moment into it fell to me into the rhythm of life because it. Yes. Okay. This awful thing is happening. I'm not going to try to fight it. I'm not going to try to resist it.

And as you were saying that it really made me reflect on, you know, the times that my in my life when. Yes, I okay, I've had a lot of material success and money and whatever, but I was fighting, because I was trying to pedal uphill, knowing that you know, it isn't meant to be what it's meant to be.

And it makes me feel that when you do step into the rhythm of life, life becomes a lot easier. But, you know, you mentioned something a lot earlier on as well about almost. It felt to me like contingency planning when you know, you're coming up to a certain, astrological, bleak patch, so to speak. You know what?

How do you, you know, what do you look for and how do you sort of plan around that? And I will just say, before you answer that, I met a medium friend of mine, a really nice, beautiful soul from Australia who had this app, and he was obsessed with it. It was telling him his good days. His bad days, his green days,

his amber days. You know, and [unclear]. And I thought, well, I must wait to see what this traffic light system is. What is that you've got there?

Debra 39:08

Yeah. So I'm going to be really honest. I do know astrologers who look at their daily planets every day. I am not one of them. I don't even look at them necessarily. Every week. I really don't. I don't live and die by it. And I don't think anybody should. To be honest, it.

Jason 39:23

Doesn't sound a healthy thing to be doing every day.

Debra 39:25

So basically, what I do and my clients come once a year, that's generally they'll come for the first time. They might come back a year later. I look a year ahead. Okay. That's a it's a good if they have particular questions, of course I'm going to answer them. But I look and I see what's coming up. And I am looking for those major influences to their chart.

And I might see something coming up. And let's just say, for example, it's something that looks like it's potentially negative or challenging. Well, there's it looks like there's changes on the job. Looks like there maybe could be a radical change on the job, maybe even something. Could they be losing their job, let's say. And of course I am going to bring that up.

But it's not written in stone that, hey, you're going to be losing your job. I mean, nothing is. And so you're looking at everything else that goes around and in particular what is coming after it. Because if I saw something, I'm just going to say it looks like, well, it looks like and there's more than one thing going on, looks like they can lose their job.

And you know what? I'm seeing money issues coming after that. Or I'm seeing the house of unemployment money being activated. Well, then I'm going to go a little bit more in that direction. And so you say, how do you work with that? Because it could be faded. Maybe it's going to happen. Maybe that was an experience I signed up for.

Then again, I would always ask them to any changes going on at your work now have you heard anything? And I would be honest and say, keep your ear to the ground and see what's going on. If they say, I'm having a problem with my boss, let's say I can look and just say, you know, it looks like it might be coming to a head because that just might be what it is.

It may not be they're getting fired or the leaving. That could be the time that they've said, you know what, I've had enough. I'm leaving or I'm going to look for another job. So the exact context we don't always know.

41:15Annual forecasts: what clients report back

Jason 41:15

When you get clients come to you and they getting this annual, forecast almost like sitting with their accountant. I can imagine in some ways doing that the, the cash flow for 12 when people are sitting with you to do that and they come back the next year, how are you finding when they've come back, how reflective their lives have been in accordance with, you know, what you sort of talk them through and, and how they navigated that, with the readiness and the knowledge beforehand.

Debra 41:49

So first of all, one of the things about astrology, this way of saying it wasn't mystical, it's very observable because I'm giving a forecast for a year, it's going to land or it's not. So the fact that they come back to me right there, they wouldn't be coming back and not going to be spending that kind of money if, you know, if nothing came to pass.

And so when they come back and what happens, I make the appointment. I always ask my clients, I invite them to let me know any specific questions, anything you want to give special attention because I will look. I look at everything. But usually we come with, you know, something, there's a little bit more we want to look into.

Maybe money, maybe love. Those are usually the two. Relocation, I think, number three. And so if they come back and think, oh, most of them do, but let's say they come back, what'll happen is either the everything is gone fine. Sometimes they will give me an update, sometimes they don't. I'll be honest. They don't always. It depends on what it is.

Because not every year is going to be a super eventful year. So if it's been a year and I've predicted some things especially, I'm going to say it could be ups, it could be downs, it could be listen, sometimes I happy things. It's like, you know what. And I've said this more than once to a client next year.

Like I will fall off my chair if you are not in a serious relationship or I've said this to many a client, if you don't want to be pregnant, be careful during this time. And I have gotten the feedback of I've met that person, I'm pregnant. You know, usually it's a happy occasion. So you do get the feedback. I'll get it sometimes during the year, if it's a big event, people will let me know it.

If not, when they come back, they'll just talk about the year briefly. They don't waste a lot of time because they're really more concerned about where I am here and where they're going. And the truth is, if during the year here and there, a client might email me and say, hey, you know, you talked about this and this is what's happening.

And it might be very close but not exact.

Jason 43:50

I suppose they don't spend half the session doing, like, the Spotify Wrapped of the year with you, as nice as that would be.

Debra 43:58

No. But I will tell you what they do. I'm sorry, but they do a lot of them, they listen back. I do record it for them. By the way, I do want to say that because there's so much information and I give precise time frames. It's not just like, oh, around here. I give precise time frames so they will keep track of certain dates and they will go back if something happens and say, oh, was it during that time?

So I do get feedback on that.

44:24Psychic timing versus planetary timing

Jason 44:24

It's almost like a totally different way of doing prophecy in mediumship. It's almost like a forensic, way of doing it. And then adding this another level on top. I can only say you must be absolutely busy around November. December? Do you even get to see any sunlight during the.

Debra 44:43

End of year? End of year, as always, busy and people will book, you know, months in advance. But I will just say this about the time. It's about the psychic and the prediction. And so because I've done both, if someone's going to come to me and, you know, the psychic, I mean, I have to be frank, my psychic reading was a lot less expensive than the astrology in terms of being specific with the timing.

I will go to the planets any time. As for me personally, because I may see something, I might see event and I had a pretty good record, you know, doing the psychic work. But the timing, you know, it's around this, it's around that for me. And I'm not saying that I'm not, using my abilities either one.

I'm looking at the planets, but I can tie it exactly to the movement of the planets. I find it to be much more precise.

Jason 45:38

I'm thinking back to all the readings I've done, because I consider myself to be a very, very strong psychic. But I think to be a good medium, you have to be a very strong psychic. It's like a complement. But I do feel that there is something about a psychic reading where you there is always a window. I can understand what you're saying because I would say I always get feelings off within a month or maybe three months.

It's never pinpoint accurate. But you wouldn't. I can never think of a situation or a reading. I've even have done that. I think there'd be certain readings and things over time. And so I sense things psychic even, you know, within the news and current affairs, you always soaking things up. Aren't you, like an antenna?

You don't just switch off at a certain point. I'm always predicting things, but I can understand that using the astrology and then I guess even using the mediumship on top, you're using every antenna, aren't you? So you're like one of those big satellites. They have.

46:37When spirit turns up in an astrology reading

Debra 46:37

The mediumship. Interesting. I only one time when I was actually I was giving an astrology reading. I had a had spirit come through. They had a message, for this person's mother. And you know, at first I was like, wait, wait, they were not going away. And I, they were open to hearing it, which was a wonderful thing.

But yeah. So and I don't usually I didn't usually combine them. My mediumship was separate, and I thought I was a good medium. I probably was a better psychic to be, you know, if I had to say which one was stronger for me. I have to say really, the psychic though at times I wish it was the other way around.

47:15Getting it wrong: humility and the beauty of the no

Debra 47:15

But for anyone who wants to know about the future and again, I always say this and I'll say this to my clients all the time, you know, look, I'm not perfect. You know, I'm not perfect. I could be wrong and wrong. It just something doesn't happen. It doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that they did something wrong. Because I've had clients over the years have said, gee, you know, it was such a good period and nothing happened.

Like, how did I screw this up? Like, you didn't screw it up, you know, you didn't screw it up. And like I say, I might have been off. I'm the first. I have no problem going there. I have a very good record, but I am not perfect. And I think in this business, too, it's something it's important to.

I hate this sort of get over yourself like that. You're not always oh right.

Jason 47:58

Absolutely, you've got to. And I'm always drawn to the healers, the anyone under the spiritual umbrella, if it's authentic in themselves. And there's a beauty even in, you know, the issues I've had over at the very beginning with the word no. And now I step into it, I own it, I embrace the though there's always the beauty in the no.

In some ways, because it means I go back and get a stronger yes. It means I go back. And even this morning I was, I was doing, a reading at 10 a.m., a platform type reading, and the spirit person came through and I, interpreted it that it was a grandad. And it said that or whatever. It doesn't matter.

These things, it's about the connection. It's about the power. It's about how you work. It's about the authenticity. And I just feel that in this society we live in now, I absolutely, you know, I think there's such a beauty in imperfection. And actually, you know, anybody listening to this podcast will realize sometimes it's not cut at exactly the right micro second place or whatever, but it's beautifully imperfect, you know, and there's something lovely about that.

You know, as healers, we don't if you are so attached to getting it right, so attached to that, you are going to be nowhere near the healer or, medium or psychic. But you could be, because if you attach yourself to that, you know, you're just going to go wrong because it creates resistance and it puts you in your head, more than anything.

Debra 49:26

And the other thing, it's also how it how we learn, because this is an experience I've had too, over the years. If something I remember one year predicting something and completely it just didn't hit, just didn't hit like and so and I thought, I'm trying to think of what it, what it even was. And it was a really long time ago, but it was something and it wasn't a big deal.

But the client said to me, you know, during this time, because I was disappointed and they said, no, it didn't it wasn't this, it was something else. And I think it was work related. And I went back because I and I'll say sometimes, you know what? Let me know what happened because I will go back and look as if I'm really off.

I want to go back and say, did I miss something because I said no? And also I will ask questions sometimes during a reading. I mean, I'm giving the reading, but let's say I was reading your chart and I might say to you, you know, just, I'm just curious about this, you know, but let's say, you know, when you were younger, you know, I don't know, were you afraid of water?

But let's just say or something or whatever, and you might say yes. And you may say no, and either way is fine, but it helps me learn, because sometimes I will start to see things, and I see this a little bit as a pattern. But you have to test these things.

Jason 50:40

You do, and it's only through the safety, of allowing yourself to experiment, allowing yourself to get things wrong that you learn. In actual fact, I learn if I look back at all the readings I've done and the beauty of the mediumship, the only time I ever learn anything is when it's a no. Because when it's a yes, it's the ones like I won't go.

Yes, you know, I've done a good job today. You don't learn anything from those ones. Normally, most of the well then you don't really. It's the ones that there's resistance which goes wrong that I learn from.

Debra 51:12

I'll tell you about one, this must be about 20 years ago now. And I had a wonderful client, and I remember looking at this chart and I said to him, you know, next April, this was looking at the year ahead, and I said, you're not going to be working.

I said, I'm telling you, next April you are done. You're leaving, you're not working. And he was kind of glad to hear that because he was thinking maybe he would retire. And I was friends with him. His wife and she called me. April came and went and let's say it was May or June. And she said, hey, you know, you remember, you know, you told him he was going to be out of work and I said, yes, I did.

I said, you know, did he retire? And she said, no, they fired him.

Jason 51:52

Oh.

Debra 51:53

And I yes. And exactly. And I was like, what? And I will tell you, it was a Pluto transit. And I knew it was taking him out of work. But 20 years ago. Okay. Now I went back to that thought, what did I miss? And I did go back and I said, oh, jeez, look at this. I wasn't as knowledgeable or as this practised as I am today, I don't think I would have missed it.

But things like this happen. And so yeah, but it's.

52:22Be gentle with yourself, and Debra's podcast, Astrology Unpacked

Jason 52:22

Through those learnings over time, which is why you're the sharp instrument you are now. You know, and I think there's this there's a beauty in that. And I am such a big advocate for people just getting to know how, how their senses work, getting to know how these things work for you. And I feel that I'm also a big advocate of us all as healers.

In one aspect or another. We're all deeply sensitive people, and we're going into this, for the right reasons. And it's about embracing, that period of, of really getting to understand your, your craft and, be gentle with yourself, be gentle with yourself. So I will say, you know, if people do want to get to know more about you, you have an astrology podcast called Astrology Unpacked so people can tune into more of you if they wish, which is lovely.

Debra 53:15

Yes, they can, and I do give some little mini lessons. I've just started this one says only about four episodes, let's say out there, but I am releasing every week. So yeah, I do invite them to listen. That would be very nice.

53:29Debra's final thought

Jason 53:29

Lovely. Well, thank you so much for coming on, it's been an absolute delight and you've taught me, a lot. So thank you for that. Leave us on a final thought today then.

Debra 53:41

Well, I would like to just encourage everyone that if you've never really looked at astrology, if you've just looked at astrology in terms of the daily, you know, a newspaper or online forecast to just look a little bit deeper, and I would actually suggest starting by listening to a podcast. That's what I would say to start, because there's not just mine, there are others out there as well, of course, but there's such there's so much knowledge that's in there that can help you help all of us.

I said this myself. Help us not just be a better person, but I'm going to say help us be the person that I feel we came in here to be.

Jason 54:23

Beautiful. And yeah, certainly don't do what I do, which is get overexcited, go onto Amazon, buy the book, and then it just joins the mountain of other spiritual books that are on the pile. Hopefully one day we'll get through that. But thank you for coming on. It's been an absolute delight. Er, well, that was a fascinating conversation.

And the lovely Debra did me an astrology reading afterwards, and it's honestly like reading an instruction manual to my life, Fascinating stuff. Less than two weeks now until my mediumship development class, Moving in the Intelligence of Spirit, and the psychic development class start. I'm so excited to host these with the lovely trance medium Donna King.

They're going to be every single week. Sunday nights for psychic, Monday nights for mediumship. Find out more at jasonpaulmedium.com.

Jason Paul Medium

Jason Paul is a psychic medium based in Bristol, giving private readings online to clients across the UK and around the world. He is the grandson of medium and healer Eddie Paul, and came to mediumship after careers as a police officer and the founder of a legal recruitment business. Jason hosts the Soul Sync podcast and teaches online psychic and mediumship development classes.

https://www.jasonpaulmedium.com
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